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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by iluminae@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

Hi Lemmy, My HOA sent out a email saying dogs are no longer allowed on any grass in common areas or front yards including grass between sidewalk and curb which is.... everywhere except our own tiny backyards. The reasoning is some dog urine effected dead spots. Honestly I didn't even notice them, it's 95° here and all the grass looks sad.

It's a walking town and we are not a gated community, non-residents walk their dogs here all the time, so this rule can only punish those who live here and has no ability to effect others.

Anyway, this seems like a 'we have tried nothing and we are all out of ideas!' moment so I wanted to see if anyone here had any suggestions I can pass on to maintain a "good" curb appeal ground cover-wise while allowing dogs to do normal dog stuff.

I can converse with the HOA board in good faith, but this rule is basically banning dogs from the neighborhood - which I super did not sign up for.

Pertainent info: PA, USA - Town Home style homes - small central common grass - owned for 8y.

Edit: it seems like people may have glossed over the question part and skipped straight to HOA bashing (which is warranted at times!) so I will rephrase:

What ground covering or neighborhood solutions to similar (perceived) issues have other communities employed?

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[-] planish@sh.itjust.works 95 points 10 months ago

Check to make sure that the HOA actually has the power to do this. As a land owner you are bound to follow the covenants that run with the land, but you are only actually bound to follow those covenants. You don't have to do random stuff just because the HOA board or even a majority of the HOA voters say so, you only actually have to do what's in the covenants.

Unless the covenants say that you agree to follow a bunch of dog-related rules to be defined later, you almost certainly are allowed to park your dog in your own front yard or in that of any consenting neighbor.

[-] mysoulishome@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

The HOA can pass an amendment or addendum to the covenants at any point, which then instantly enacts the rule and gives them the power to fine you and put a lien on your property if you don’t pay…with the caveat that I’m speaking about in the USA. Do other countries have HOA’s? You could go to a meeting or take them to court of course.

[-] rammer@sopuli.xyz 22 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Most other countries do not have HOAs. In Finland where I live, municipalities can enact ordinances to limit what you can do on your property, but they are often very limited if they exist at all. The most restrictive ones that I know limit the type of house that can be built (eg. no flat roofs, although this can be a zoning issue as well), the color of the houses and other similar limitations.

I'll take my socialdemocrat "hell hole" of a country over the "free" USA with HOAs any time.

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[-] SymphonicResonance@lemmy.world 74 points 10 months ago

Clearly the solution to start owning wolves.

[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 10 months ago
[-] Decoy321@lemmy.world 52 points 10 months ago

How the fuck are they going to enforce this?

[-] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 70 points 10 months ago

You're assuming the point is to stop it. It's far more likely the point is to create an excuse for issuing fines.

[-] Neato@kbin.social 33 points 10 months ago

As John Oliver showed: ridiculous fines and if you don't pay then they foreclose on your house.

[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 26 points 10 months ago

I'm sure there's some nosy old biddies who would love an excuse to take a picture of every dog that pisses where they can see it

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[-] Mamertine@lemmy.world 37 points 10 months ago

Find out when the next meeting is. Tell them you're going to attend.

Organize all the other dog owners and all of you attend. Explain why the new rule is a burden on you all. Explain what you want. Listen to their reasoning. Come to an agreeable compromise.

[-] iluminae@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago

A complicating factor: I would say ~50% of the houses are rented and only the homeowners have a say in HOA matters. So, assuming any owners without dogs (including the whole board) and any landlord would logically vote to ban all use of the grass, while all dog-owning homeowners would vote to allow dogs near the grass.

Obviously that's generalizing what the votes would be - even though the majority of the houses have dogs, I would say the minority are homeowners with dogs.

The reason I bring this up is a petition-style response may be dismissed as "well those dog owners have no say as they are not homeowners"

[-] akaCat@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

If any of the home owners are happy with their dog-owning current renters, it would be in their interest to support the dog owners.

[-] iluminae@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

I actually don't know if a landlord has to do anything to keep a renter happy these days? Or if there is enough demand that they would not care? Not sure, perhaps I am approaching that question pessimistically.

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[-] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 31 points 10 months ago

So the AKC has this page that lists about half a dozen alternatives to outright banning dogs on grass.

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/home-living/dog-pee-killing-grass/

I agree this very much sounds like the HOA taking the laziest route possible at the expense of it's residents.

But also, fuck HOAs. Get on the board and take that shit down from the inside, only reliable way to destroy those parasites.

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[-] FARTYSHARTBLAST@kbin.social 27 points 10 months ago

Move to a place that is not in an HOA because fuck HOAs.

[-] _CottonCandyUnicorn_@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

I truly don't understand how HOAs aren't illegal. Or at the very least restricted.

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 15 points 10 months ago

Local governments love HOAs and they are only giving construction permits to HOA communities. Why they love it? Easy, they onload the government duties of maintaining infrastructure on the HOAs, who charge a "tax" that doesn't risks the political career of the elected officials.

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[-] joel_feila@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago

Former real estate agent here

All you can do is talk to the hoa board. That is it. If they won't listen then you have no options. Other then pointing out this wont solve the problem and only punish members. Good luck.

[-] hoch@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

no LEGAL options

FTFY

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[-] itsshortstuff@lemm.ee 25 points 10 months ago

I've read some folks being a bottle of water on walks to dilute the pee so it's less likely to ruin grass. But in fairness if some dog pee is ruining grass, owners are not watering their lawns enough. There are plenty of dogs in my neighborhood that are walked and I don't think there are many pee spot issues.

But even better would be to not use grass :) uses too much water in the first place hehe

[-] SgtAStrawberry@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

As someone not from the US. What in the world are you guys doing with your grass that makes it need watering and gets ruined by dog pee?

I have lived around dogs my entire life and never seen any grass get miscolourd by their pee.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 17 points 10 months ago

I'd guess it's the building cities in the inhospitable desert that does it.

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[-] sturmblast@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago

shit like this is the reason I will never ever participate in an HOA

[-] paholg@lemm.ee 23 points 10 months ago

Is this legal? My understanding is that the strip of grass between the sidewalk and street is "semi-private", in that the homeowner has to maintain it, but that the city actually owns it.

I'd check local laws and see if the HOA has any right to restrict dogs there.

[-] bustrpoindextr@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

HOAs have excessive rights especially newer ones and this is probably actually legal. The city likely owns none of it btw.

HOAs are a blight on American home ownership, John Oliver did a segment on it, but new HOA contracts are crazy if you haven't had a peek at one.

[-] Heavybell@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago

I am still confused how these "home owner associations" have any legal right to tell you to do anything…

[-] elscallr@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

When you buy the house you sign a contract giving them authority over certain things. You're bound by the terms of the contract.

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[-] iluminae@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

In an additional effort to refocus this thread to ground cover, has anyone here in the northeast US gone with a clover ground cover, rather than grass?

[-] silentknyght@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

Why not put down mulch and native perennials? Skip fussy turf grass altogether.

[-] Nastybutler@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

That would also probably be an HOA violation. Welcome to hell

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[-] NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social 15 points 10 months ago

Set all the grass on fire. Boom, no more grass.

[-] malloc@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

You have been living there for 8 yrs. Is this the first time the board has been unreasonable? If not, you might not have much recourse. Except for becoming president of the HOA and changing by-laws yourself. Unfortunately, HOAs in America are fucking weird she mostly unregulated which leads to these power tripping people.

If so, I would converse with them and present the same arguments you posted here.

In both cases, it would help if you can get your neighbors on the same page and agree. If more than half of the neighbors come to the consensus that it’s unreasonable, could easily force the board’s hand and revert. If they don’t bend, I would then ask your neighbors to re-elect the board. If at this point, you would need to check your HOA by-laws since it wildly differs across the USA.

[-] Mcballs1234@lemmy.ml 10 points 10 months ago

I say burn the hoa with fire

[-] rez_doggie@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Pour used oil on the head of the how's lawn. Then have every dog owner complain about it.

[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Honestly, review you HOA requirements for imposing new rules, make sure they followed the rules and if they didn't demand the rule be withdrawn until the proper process is followed.

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this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
228 points (94.9% liked)

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