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this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2024
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This Biden protection is crazy. we need a candidate who actually stands a chance against Trump. this is insane. It's 2016 all over again.
I don't even see why that matters. Even if the candidate was an actual real turnip, the choice would be obvious.
I mean I don't vote in your election but it seems quite clear to me.
I think part of our different view might be based on how our electoral system is.
So to explain: Trump's never won a popular election before. Even when he became president, most Americans voted for his opposition Hillary Clinton. We have a very gerrymandered and corrupt voting system to oversimplify. Because of that The main decider for presidential elections is voting turnout. If a lot of people come out to vote, the Democrats usually win. If they don't the Republicans win. Voter turnout is higher when people want to vote for the Democratic nominee. No one really wants to vote for Biden. Most of us will vote against Trump myself included. That being said, if we run a very unlikable candidate against him like we did in 2016, he might win and that's terrifying. This election is serious so we should take it seriously and run somebody likeable and not half way to being a turnip.
God forbid if Biden stays in there, I hope he wins. I'll even vote for him but I am not feeling good about his odds.
I think you missed their point. They, and many others, don't know why anyone would vote for Trump to begin with. Of course, I said the same thing when he first started being presented as a candidate for 2016. Like, of all people, him? But, here we are today, wondering if he actually had a chance for another term.
A different voting method may have avoided him getting this far, but he really shouldn't have even gotten out of the joke candidate category to begin with.
My bad Thanks for letting me know.
I totally get that sentiment. I don't really understand it either. I have family members that votes for Trump. It's like their brain is rotted. They constantly use words that they don't have a definition for like woke or CRT. They think everyone is lying except for Trump. It's terrifying honestly.
I think that's about 30% to 40% of Americans sadly.
In my experience, the people who vote Republican/conservative/Trump do so out of a certain amount of philosophical and emotional laziness and denial. Confronting the roots of our societal problems is difficult and uncomfortable, and takes a degree of empathy and emotional intelligence that many people simply do not have. To be clear; it is rarely their fault and frequently a result of the external influences and education during their formative years.
The conservative viewpoint that has functionally become hereditary and contagious is that you are special and good, and the only people that are also special and good must have the same values, prejudices, advantages, and deficiencies that you do. This is why if you are nice and polite to conservatives they start spouting more and more bigoted bullshit. It's because, in their mind, the only good people are the ones that agree with them, and they perceive you as "good" for extending basic decency to them.
This cognitive shortcut is how I have succeeded in planting a lot of seeds of progressive values in the minds of my classmates at the conservative, religious school I accidentally ended up in. Each one of them is a single starfish, so to speak, but each individual moves the needle a little bit. Small progress is better than no progress.
I also attended a small private religious conservative school growing up. Happy to see someone like me out in the world with progressive politics. Good on you stranger. ☺️ I hope you're living life to the fullest.
That explanation makes sense to me. Good theory 👈😎
I compare my time in a similar situation to being exposed to some nasty disease. It was misery at the time but has provided some inoculation against authoritarianism and demagoguery since. Also let me know sadists are a thing.
I always interpret this as projecting their opinions. If you give the person nothing to suggest a specific political leaning and have a positive enough interaction it's too easy for them to assume you hold the same values as you.
I've honestly caught myself in the same, so I just try to stay apolitical in interactions at work until others reveal their opinions to me
TLDR: the Electoral College is DEI for Republicans.
Addendum point: The people we need to convince to win are not the people who see the obvious distinction between Joe and Trump, and if you haven't convinced them yet, you probably aren't going to -- especially not after that debate performance (which is why they took the gamble to do that debate in the first place).
And before that, it was DEI for the pro-slavery States. Back before black people and even women could vote, whites didn't have numbers enough to win many elections, so they created the Electoral College and made it so that black people counted as 3/5ths of a "person" and slave owners could vote in the names of their slaves.
Ah yes the 3/5 "compromise".
Yeah, this is where I'm at. I'm not an American, but I will feel the impact of your country's decisions very quickly. I think the best option is to beg the non-voters to get out and vote however you can while building a new party, or rebuilding an existing one, from the local level on up until you have a realistic chance of putting a leader worth having in place.
For what it's worth, I think the Biden administration hasn't done terribly. They could have done much better with the latest episode of the Israel-Gaza conflict, but we literally had Congress people advocating for a nuclear response. A lot of improvements in other areas were quietly made in the background that wasn't really talked about. I can't say if that's because Biden picked the right people to get things done, he had the right vision, or he just had good handlers. I'm not sure I care because, whatever the answer is, the opponent certainly doesn't have any of those.
I'm not voting for the insurrectionist in 2024. I don't care how frail Biden looks. The choice is obvious. I'll worry about the next candidate.
No one Is suggesting you should vote for Trump and his fascist. I'm saying I'm worried Biden won't beat Trump and his fascist in an election because he's not a strong candidate at all. This is the same problem we have with Hillary in 2016
You're not wrong, but he's the incumbent. They were never going to switch him out. He beat Trump last time, and there's no way the DNC was ever going to float someone different. Hillary was not the incumbent.
But man it would be awesome to have "Yes we can" slogan energy back again. The speeches on the runup to Obama's first presidential election were so morale-boosting. I ended up canvassing for him when I lived in northwest Indiana with my baby in a stroller and my toddler walking around with us. It was awesome.
Now I mostly just vote and get really upset a lot.
The reality is that with the Republicans embracing fascism America will not recover without the candidacy of another FDR, someone who voters can not only want to vote for but will replace any overly partisan Congresscritter that opposes his agenda.
That's not happening. Period. Maybe the Democrats will win this year, maybe not, but in 2026 and 2028 they'll still be ratcheting America to fascism regardless with their neverending deluge of "moderates" that are always a little more right than before in an appeal to voters who want a dictator instead of picking candidates their base actually wants.
This road isn't ending well no matter what happens.
I dont care who you vote for. It is very clear to me you will vote for Democrats. That is great.
I do care about who my aunt and her family votes for, a lot. She is democrat leaning. Her husband is republican leaning. They both believe the middle class is getting destroyed by politicians for the last 2 decades. They are both retired. They used to be middle/low income. These days they are clearly low income.
For the last 2 years, they both are saying that they don't want to vote for Trump but Biden destroyed the economy for middle class. It was clear they might give Biden another shot if he managed to recover the economy before the election.
Ever since the debate, they both are dead set on voting for Trump. All I hear is "Of course the economy would be bad, he is senile." or any "Of course xyz would be bad, he is senile."
As I said, I don't care who you vote for. I care for the votes of people that have not decided whether to vote for Trump or Biden. In the debate, Biden lost a lot of them. Biden lost that debate, clearly! Saying "they both are senile" or "Trump lied during the debate" is damage control by Dems. If Dems insist on going forward with Biden, Trump will be president. I am sure of that.
Now you can say my aunt and her family are stupid. You can say I am stupid for not changing their minds. You can say Trump is an insurrectionist and we are all stupid. You can even say all of the Americans are stupid, it is your first amendment right. You can down-vote me to hell if it makes you feel good. None of these will change the fact that my aunt and her family will vote for Trump unless Dems change the candidate or Biden manages to shit rainbows and use it to gift a million dollars to my aunt's family.
At this point being a Biden apologist is the same thing as voting for Trump. Trump will win.
Democrats will go down blaming the other Democrats that kept warning them of other centrist voters calling them Russian shills.
No sense of self blame and simply calling everyone else idiots cause they didn't see their idea of a perfect future that no one else was included on.
Apparently a whole party of "being right" is not a good way to get others to join you.
The choice is obvious to you. Not to the average American.
Hey it worked out well when they protected Hillary.....
Wait no it didn't
Agree, this astroturfing is insane. I can't help but think it's a coordinated campaign, because Biden was very clearly senile in that debate, if not something worse. Democrats can still win if they let Biden retire and choose someone who can rebut Donald Trump.
Just look at my two recent submissions to c/politics that were immediately down-voted anonymously for highlighting FOCUS GROUPS of UNDECIDED SWING VOTERS.
Not one substantive argument.
And you know I can't tell if it's scared Dems, or astroturfing right-wing operatives trying to ensure we maintain course with this sinking ship.
Dude I've been wondering the same thing lately. I've been countering the same types. I've been referring to him as blue maga.
Not astroturfers; brigaders....the worst kind of trumpian pussy
Try scared democrats who refuse to accept that anyone could disagree with them cause they are right and think by plugging their ears it will just work out.
How can someone even expect him to not be senile at this age.
Social media with bots and shit allow for such, yes.
By the way, I don't think the organizers of this campaign want Dems to win. They want Dems to lose.
It may not be seen from the US and the EU, but Trump's presidency has helped quite a few disgusting things to start happening in various parts of the world, though they continued during Biden's presidency.
Bush was clearly the face man of an executive admin that he didn't run, he was s figure head. Clinton, it was assumed by the press and a lot of the voter base wasn't running his admin, the first term Hillary was said to be running things and a slew of technocrats was assumed his second term, Reagan, we now know historically, was experiencing Alzheimer's all through out his presidency, much like Trump, he also had a strict schedule of not even pretending he showed up to work.
There's nothing wrong with electing the face of an administration you want in office, this is largely Obama's admin still running the government, that's what we all want. Unkie Joe can take all the naps he wants, it make no real difference.
I don't know why everyone thinks this is some rarely understood point. I think most people get this.
However, You have to be electable to a country where 30 to 40% of people. Think Trump is a god king who can do no wrong and never lies. Hillary's administration almost certainly would have been better than Trump's. Hillary still lost. Biden running as he is now is dangerous. That's where it makes the real difference. Biden might lose to trump and we might get Trump again. Any other sane and half way competent milk toast politician won't have that problem. Biden continuing to run is a danger to democracy.