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submitted 7 months ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to c/science_memes@mander.xyz

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[-] casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer@sh.itjust.works 4 points 7 months ago

This is a consistent and very unpleasant fact of the world that white men will treat anyone of any other demographic as less than equals.

Pls stop generalizing this bad behavior upon all white men. It only serves to further the divide, and is completely unfair and uncalled for against those in the demographic who don't subscribe to those beliefs or patterns of behavior.

I'm not sure if that was your intent, that's just how it comes across and it makes it hard not to completely write off your argument/viewpoints for being unable to respect your neighbor.

[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 17 points 7 months ago

I'm a white man. I can absolutely generalize about a well known aspect of reality. It isn't in question that white men are currently in a position of overall privilege, and that as a group that position of privilege has the effect stated.

I pretty much also said that this is true in the western world where white men are the supposed majority. I said that the same would be the case with any dominant group because humans are just like that.

A generalization can not only be true in general, but it doesn't inherently mean that the entire group is at fault (beyond any unintentional benefits from the situation, which is what's called privilege in current discourse on matters of gender and race in specific, but applies to more than those alone).

Here's the thing. Until and unless we, not just as white men (speaking of the group I'm in) work on calling out and correcting bad behaviors as a group, to the point that it ceases to be a problem for others, we are part of the problem, no matter how little any individual likes that.

Divisions currently exist. They will always exist because any time there is a place of authority/power, there will be those that seek it and use it. Over time, you might see a given demographic shift in and out of that place of power, but it won't change humans being humans; there will be abuse of power.

That's the real key. The fact that white men have held dominance over most of the world for centuries (for a given value of most, and a given value of white) is simply fact. One could argue that the position of dominance really covers all the world since anyone wanting to disrupt that has to contend against that hierarchy. There are definitely places where, within a region* white men aren't the dominant group, kinda impossible to be otherwise. But trying to pretend that the world isn't the way it is is just silly.

[-] casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer@sh.itjust.works -1 points 7 months ago

Completely agree with your points. But also hope you can see it may be more fruitful to appear as though you're ready to attack the problem, rather than your fellow man.

I say this because I didn't read this as an outright attack or denigration of your fellow man, but I very much fear how easily any other man may interpret it and how it could serve to further the divide and make the problem even harder to address. That is my chief concern.

I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your position fellow internet stranger <3

[-] frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

rather than your fellow man.

Imagine thinking anyone who actually has skin in the game is going to look at genocidal oppressors as "their fellow man" fucking lmao. Clown world kumbaya shit that will only end with the settler empire standing over unending hectares of the bodies of subjects-of-empire who got backstabbed and throat-slit by the settlers; while they still hold the knife.

As long as the knife is still six inches in our back, it doesn't matter that the settlers planted it twelve, and "graciously" drew it back six; the settlers haven't done shit worth being regarded as "fellow man". Really, haven't done shit in general other than harm us.

[-] worldofbirths@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

I think the generalization isn't really about white men per se, but about the demographic in power. Give a group unchecked power long enough and they forget how that came to be. I agree that it's not a rule, and maybe should be expressed as more of a heuristic: if you are speaking to someone that is in power, and you don't look like them, they might think you are not empowered.

Don't let the lack of nuance in that statement take away from all the very valid points being made. The plight is real, and hopefully the white men who are enlightened enough to not confuse circumstance with natural order will read and know to not take it personally.

[-] casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago

Thank you for the civil discussion.

Completely agree about unchecked power and your interpretation of it as a heuristic rather than an ambiguously defined trait.

I most certainly realize the plight is real and wish it never was like I'd hope all of us can say. But the lack of nuance struck me as dangerous. I understand how disenfranchised men will interpret things, and when people willfully neglect the opportunity to be concise it leaves a worrying amount of room for misinterpretation and effectively is ragebait that can serve to further entrench a misguided incel or the like into their toxic niche.

And for anyone who thinks I'm overreacting: see how Reddit powermod awkward_the_turtle intentionally acted to provoke men, then wrote off everyone who took issue with it as inherently being member of the ideology they were allegedly targeting. Reddit, the company, enabled and encouraged this mod and their collaborators to attack users on their platform indiscriminately.

If Lemmy is to serve as only a new platform for abuse, then it deserves to die with the rest of social media. Please, do not let it come to this. Discuss and debate civilly.