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Twilight | ContraPoints
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this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2024
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chapotraphouse
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I find that hegemonic/rancid takes about veganism are a pretty good flag for other bad politics. It's South Park behavior. Especially because shitting on tofu like contra did denigrates East Asian cultures as collateral damage
Mocking vegans didn't originate with South Park, it originated with annoying vegans. And lots of people dislike tofu because it's hard to prepare correctly or because it's an odd texture or something. Not being a vegan doesn't make you a bad person, and it's reaching to imply making fun of tofu is racist.
no they don't because no it isn't? it's frankly simple compared to handling meat. if you wanna make the argument that they don't like it because they're ignorant that's one thing, but claiming "tofu is hard" is kind of embarrassing unless you've literally never been taught even the basics of cooking.
I wasn't giving my opinion, just some I've heard.
fair enough, that's my bad then. sorry for the hostility.
No it's okay, I think I'm very clumsy at articulating my thoughts. I give people the wrong impression. I also have a bad tendency to play devil's advocate.
And I have to address your concrete objections:
It's fine to have a personal preference. If you try and extend these globally and say that your culture is right about how tofu tastes and those people are either wrong or lying, yeah that's racist. That's why she deleted
I love tofu, but I also know many people who don't. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying many people are unfamiliar with it here. This is a bit much
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation
It originated with people being unable to refute vegans
You could also interpret that proposed phenomenon to say that self-righteousness is annoying.
I don't understand how someone can make it onto a niche communist forum without having the life experience to confirm that people will absolutely attack you for wanting things to be better
Marxist political organizing depends on showing people how we can concretely improve our lives and how socialism serves our collective interests. We need a mass movement in order to be effective, so we bring in as many people as possible.
Vegan political organizing seems to rely on tactics that only work on a small percentage of the population and alienate everyone else. Maybe vegans should try a method that isn't sanctimoniousness and inventing words like "bloodmouth"
Can you even hear yourself? You're so full of shit it's dribbling out of your bloody mouth and you're wholly oblivious to it. Get the fuck out of here with your liberal anti-vegan nonsense and go worship your cringe lib idol Contrapoints elsewhere.
Again, I'm vegan and have no particular interest in contra. But thanks.
You're basically just telling me how resentful and self-oblivious you are. Lots of ineffectual (self-proclaimed) Marxist activists can be characterized the same way, meanwhile vegans have done plenty of good agitation, probably the most visible being the documentaries on industrial slaughterhouses they've produced.
Saying that you personally do not like tofu is fine. Saying that tofu is impossible to prepare in a way that's good is racist.
You have misread me. It's South Park behavior. This type of worldview shits on people for caring; people who care are always the ones trying to change things; thus these attacks always attempt to preserve the current state of things. In other words, they are conservative. South Park didn't literally invent antiveganism, that would be so stupid that I think you should take a step back and remember that you're talking to a person and not a cartoon character.
You have misread me. I did not say that not being vegan makes you a "bad person", whatever that means. Going out of your way to defend the status quo of carnism usually means you have bad politics. Principled leftists have the good sense to stay quiet about it. Contra's particular flavor is to cede that veganism is ethically correct, to prevent both animal suffering and environmental destruction, but to claim that giving up meat is so impossibly difficult that anyone who's vegan must not have liked the taste very much to begin with. That's an obviously silly argument, and I hope she grows some spine and acts according to her stated values, but it doesn't excuse her thoughtless blabs denigrating East Asian cultures.
You're the one who brought up South Park. Cartoons are just not a big factor in how I interpret the world.
Tofu is one food eaten in East Asia. You can dislike one food without thinking an entire culture is incapable of preparing good food. You can say you hate rice and rice sucks without denigrating China. Maybe she loves hotpot. It's really not worth the emotional investment what a youtuber thinks about food.
There's plenty of people in indigenous and third world leftist movements who would actively defend eating meat. Personally I don't eat meat, but I don't think it's a good idea to call someone a jackass or a bad leftist or whatever over it. I can articulate my objections without berating a stranger.
It definitely does though
Alright so every historical member of the communist movement is a bad person...
Well, no one is perfect. A bit hard to morally justify killing animals for no real reason though
So it's "no one is perfect" when it's someone you like, but "you're a bad person" when it's someone you dislike.
The reason is to eat them. Following that logic, every indigenous culture that eats meat is constantly doing something morally unjustifiable.
Comparing indigenous people who actually hunt their food to westerners who cause death and suffering on an industrial scale because veggies are yucky is just disingenuous. I get it, you like your murder treats.
Okay so it's acceptable to hunt for meat, and the issue is industrial farming rather than eating meat. If that's the case we can take a more tempered approach than "all western meat-eaters are bad people". After all, they didn't set up the system of industrial farming, and they grew up with it as a part of their culture.
Also, I don't eat meat and I strive to eat vegan wherever possible. But I like to think I have a materialist, non-moralist approach to the issue. At least, I don't get angry at people who haven't come to the same conclusion as me.