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Attacking the big problems (lemmy.world)

submitted 7 months ago by HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world to c/science_memes@mander.xyz

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[-] explodIng_lIme@lemmy.world 42 points 7 months ago

Science is philosophy. Somewhere along the way people seem to have forgotten that

[-] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 29 points 7 months ago

Here's a fun game:

Pick any Wikipedia article. Click the first link. Keep clicking the first link. Eventually you'll end up at Philosophy and forever be in a loop going back to Philosophy.

Turns out conscious thinking and applying logical rigor is the basis for everything we perceive.

[-] kboy101222@sh.itjust.works 19 points 7 months ago

I'm trying this out.

Here's the results: Shadow King (Marvel character): success after about 10 links

Ernest Shackleton (article of the day): 10 clicks

Wikipedia (the article): 4 clicks

Church of the Holy Mother of God, Bolshiye Saly: 14 clicks

James Loren Martin: 24 clicks

Annette Ziegler: 14 clicks

Almost all of them went through Philosophy of Science or Philosophy of Art. Seems like a pretty reliable rule.

[-] turboshadowcool@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 months ago

Thank you for your service o7

[-] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I found an exception:

Starting from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English: Help:IPA/English > Alphabet > Letter (alphabet) > Symbol > Sign (semiotics) > Semiotics > Help:IPA/English

If you don't think the IPA link counts as "the first link", then

Starting from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_language: Japanese language > Japonic languages > Japanese language

will also cause a loop.

[-] veniasilente@lemm.ee 6 points 7 months ago

The Help: namespace is not articles tho.

[-] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 2 points 7 months ago

If you don't count link that leads to help, then Japanese language will lead to a loop of only 2 clicks.

See the original post.

[-] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

Excellent! Well played.

[-] deo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 6 months ago

wouldn't count that stuff in the parenthesis, as it's just showing the translation of "japonic lanuages" and then the transliteration of that translation. Sometimes they'll have pronunciation or whatever in parentheses, and that shouldn't count for the same reason.

If instead of clicking on "japanese" again, you had clicked on "language family", you'd get all the way to philosophy in 8 or 9 clicks (i lost count and i'm too lazy to fix it).

[-] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Apparently, there is a wikipedia article about this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Getting_to_Philosophy

I really wish this article wouldn't link to philosophy, but it does...

[-] Wodge@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

Started off at the page for Ham, and yep, it ended up on philosophy.

[-] EmoDuck@sh.itjust.works 5 points 7 months ago

There seem to be a couple of loops where you always end up circling between the same through pages

[-] Cavemanfreak@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago

Yeah. For example, Strongman gives a 2 page loop.

[-] deo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 months ago

if you click the second link instead when you encounter a loop, it fixes it, though.

[-] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

If this is true, then every wikipedia page will eventually lead to wikipedia of Greek, because the philosophy page leads to greek.

Hence, Greek best country confirmed by wikipedia?!

[-] Haagel@lemmings.world 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

You know what I mean, brother. There's a huge scope of difference between applied sciences and natural philosophy. Our technological advancements fail to resolve fundamental questions about the human condition. Scientists rarely study epistemology or philosophy in order to attain our degrees and I think it shows in the public trend toward scientism.

[-] Grail@aussie.zone 3 points 7 months ago

Scientism is so pervasive and so ridiculous. For example there's people who say magic isn't real because science can explain it. No shit science can explain it, that's the point of science. It's people defining science in opposition to magic based on cultural values instead of actually knowing what science is. https://medium.com/@viridiangrail/tautological-denial-of-magic-0e311ca94c2a

[-] Haagel@lemmings.world 2 points 7 months ago

Interesting read. I'm familiar with the Arthur C Clarke quote...

[-] fsxylo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Lol, I love when the woo community can't argue in good faith, so have to artificially drag science to their level by calling it "scientism".

Magic isn't real because you can't prove it's real, and science isn't opposed to magic, because magic isn't on the playing board.

[-] Haagel@lemmings.world 0 points 6 months ago

Scientism is the dogmatic belief that empirical science is the only source of knowledge. It's not arguing in bad faith to say that this is a dangerously flawed ideology.

The inconvenient truth about scientific research is that 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘦𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘰𝘧 𝘥𝘢𝘵𝘢 𝘪𝘴 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧-𝘦𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘵. Information requires a metaphysical framework in order to be interpreted in way that makes sense.

Lacking a philosophical foundation, scientism produces dangerous results, like when Hitler and his ilk explicitly referred to Darwinism as their justification for the Holocaust.

[-] Grail@aussie.zone 0 points 6 months ago

I'm a degree-holding job-working scientist and I love science. I also love magic. Magic can be proven. Scientists have published hundreds of papers on the powerful placebo effect, also known as magic. Don't tell me you're going to deny the existence of the placebo effect?