This is basically how the French do liberalism. A little bit of rioting is how the general populace negotiates with their ruling class whenever they plan something. This does mean that they have suffered way less under neoliberalism than comparable nations in Western Europe, just look at the French vs the German age of retirement, but it is very much not revolutionary even when it involves street militancy.

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah unfortunately my impression of these riots is they're mostly like if the pink hat and no kings protestors in the US actually did something?

[–] EatMoreMacroplastics@hexbear.net 15 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Mostly, yes. The difference is that they actually inconvenience the state enough to make concessions, both due the higher level of militance and the wider public support they can rely on when needed. Protest movements in France are also really good at general strikes for the latter reason. What it boils down to is that they actually inconvenience the state enough to move the needle and get concessions. But the state is very aware of that and good at recuperating the dissent, letting the masses blow off steam and then walking some decisions back in a way that makes the general public think they won - all of this backed up by the state also being able to call on what's probably the most violent and militarized cops in all of the Western EU.

So i'd say the key differences i see compared to the US are both broader and deeper organizing and higher militancy on the side of the people and a more calculating, flexible and pragmatic cynicism on behalf of the state. But this is absolutely not a revolutionary movement. Ofc the French haven't had an actual revolution^1^ since 1871, so who knows, maybe some day this'll change. The odds of that are probably better than elsewhere in the West.

^1^This only goes for the French mainland. The colonies are a very different matter, as evidenced by the Algerian civil war in the late 1950s.

[–] menas@lemmy.wtf 9 points 2 days ago

I agree, but not for the general strike part. Their is no general strike for decades. Their is inter professional day of strike called by central union, but this is nothing close to general strike. Central Unions design this day to "not disrupt too much the economy".

This is an issue directly link with professional unionist and centralism of those unions. Uncentralized unions with nobody paid denounce those strategy, as well as the vast majority of people imply in struggle (even people unionize in central union).

I know orthodox marxist like centralized organization, but (for unions at least) it leads to non-revolutionary position (or liberal, if you'd rather). However, those organization are the last mass organization of our class, nobody could deny it.

[–] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 27 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah at one point you have to admit you're either going to burn shit in your streets to negotiate forever or you need to actually take the next step. Which, anarchist or communist aside, is taking the means of production. I don't think the French will figure this out soon.

[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

one of these times somebody will kill a cop with an improvised spear and something might kick off

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 25 points 2 days ago

The gilets jaunes protests had open clashes between protesters and cops in full brawls. Cops that got isolated were beaten to a pulp. The confrontations with police are very real and very serious, not just minor clashes. A kid has had his hand blown off, some protesters have been brutally savaged, there's one video of a cop feeling up a highschool girl while he has her pinned down for arrest, there's another video of 3 student protesters beating the shit out of a lone cop.

Short of spilling into full blown revolution and civil war the actual conflict occurring is as serious as it can get. The orgs are not ready to push for that yet though, they're pursuing reformism until it is absolutely proven that it is not an option before moving to the next stage, the wider population is unlikely to support revolution without reformism proving itself unavailable.