It's a material fact that astounding amounts of wealth have been siphoned out of the Hungarian state and into the pockets of Orbán and a selection of his cronies.

What's the difference between the wealth being siphoned by national bourgeoisie cronies or foreign multinational cronies? Neoliberalism is the ideology of corruption, it's inevitable either way.

It's also a material fact that Hungary's democratic institutions (which, yeah, liberal democracy - were never great to begin with) have been systematically hollowed out to the point that it is a genuine shock for my friend that the supreme court (which has been packed with Orbán toadies) didn't overturn the election.

So, uh, they haven't really been that deeply compromised after all? I think your friend bought into opposition propaganda, same thing is happening in my country, they like to portray our ruling party as this greatest evil that ever befell the nation when in reality when they were in power once or twice they didn't really do anything significantly differently, our policy was largely dictated by more powerful European nations either way.

[–] WideningGyro@hexbear.net 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

"What's the difference between the wealth being siphoned by national bourgeoisie cronies or foreign multinational cronies"

In principle? Nothing. In reality? Massive difference in scale. It's very obvious from your dismissive tone that you don't actually understand the amounts in question. I'm not saying that other EU countries are free from corruption (legal and otherwise), but a massive amount of the money that would otherwise go to fund infrastructure, healthcare, etc. in Hungary were directly siphoned off. The prospect of that changing is going to benefit the Hungarian working class. I find it callous and a bit out of touch to tut-tut them for celebrating that fact.

"So, uh, they haven't really been that deeply compromised after all?"

That's your words, not mine. We're talking about a country where supreme court justices have publicly apologized and grovelled before the president after fining his party a symbolic amount for breach of campaign laws. The same president who suspended term limits and ruled for 16 years. Who built a massive football stadium in his tiny home village. I hate my own EU country for a variety of reasons, but that shit simply couldn't currently happen here. The system, as flawed as it is, has brakes built into it that prevent this kind of open and massive embezzlement of public funds. It's fine if you don't think that matters, but it's unserious to act like it shouldn't matter to the average Hungarian.

[–] space_comrade@hexbear.net 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The prospect of that changing is going to benefit the Hungarian working class.

It's not gonna change significantly, it never does. I'll eat my words if it does but I don't think it will, I don't know of an example where an Eastern European country got rid of local corruption and things were much better for the working class, it just doesn't happen that way. I think if you believe all this corruption money is suddenly going to make its way to healthcare and infrastructure you're being a bit naive.