this post was submitted on 14 Apr 2026
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He was a radical dissident that was killed by the government for criticizing them and for agitating the masses with his speeches.
Totally not political.
Even worse...... He was a radical dissident that was killed by reactionaries in his own community. Even the Romans were like....... You guys sure about this?
The whole pilate not wanting to execute jesus and the crowd shouting for clemency for barabas instead was probably added later to make christianity more palatable to the romans who didn’t want to see themselves as the villains
I mean..... Who hasn't wanted to edit their works of fiction at some point or another?
Jesus, the real guy as depicted in the bible, would have taken a whip to your average chud to drive them out of the temple. But today modern anglo heretics use Jesus as a blank slate to project their fucked up shit onto.
Bible Jesus wouldnt approve of like...aby of this but he also thought the world was gonna end innlike 30 years max. Apocalypticism was huge amongst jews at the time, like Beatlemania. Dude eas badically preaching to that Christmas is coming up soon and Santa is warching bt that parents do but with God ans the end times. If he thought shit was gonna keep going another couple thousand years he probably would have acted very different.
he was definitely executed by the Roman state, that the Jews did it has no historical support
I was working within the framework of the Bible, the vast majority of which has very little to no historical support.
The bible is also Roman propaganda
fair enough, I was thinking of the historical dude
He was a fictional character invented by an apocalyptic Jewish sect a century or so after his supposed life.
No serious historian thinks that. Jesus was definitely a real dude who was really a religious leader and really got executed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
Historians generally agree that there was a dude named Yeshua of Nazareth who was executed by the Romans but
That's not really a good comparison at all. There is not actually any direct evidence for King Arthur at all, even if it's possible he's somehow extremely loosely based on a figure that might have existed somewhere at some point. There is literally nothing we can say about a historical King Arthur. And Robin Hood has always been a purely folkloric figure, never even claimed to be a real historical person.
Compared to Arthur, we know far more about Jesus from far more sources - where he lived, when and how he died, who killed him, a few specific events from his life (baptism by John being the strongest one). We know about him from Jewish, early Christian, and Roman sources. We can guess within a decade where he was born. We know the name of his brother and the role he played in running the religious movement that formed after Jesus died! We have sources from only a decade or two after his death that discuss people who knew him personally.
Yes, the gospel stories are either obviously legendary or at least impossible to verify with the sources we have available. They were written after the religion was establishing a doctrine and they're full of contradictions with each other and with the non-canonical gospels as the followers of Jesus competed to define who he was and what he did. They probably do contain some genuine historical truths - specific actions, sayings, or miracles performed (magicians were a big deal in Judaism at this time). There's probably no way for us to separate out the real from the fictional, but that is not the same as saying it's all fictional.
Not with any degree of specificity, it's not like they had his address in an antiquarian phone book.
We can assume that a guy got executed around 33 AD but not even what he got executed for. As the article mentions, there were probably hundreds of itinerant preachers around that time that could have been convenient pegs to hang the rest of the story on.
Not really:
According to what? The New Testament or someone citing the New Testament?
Obviously. If they didn't live in a palace, who's address do we know? Preposterous and irrelevant.
We don't need to assume a guy got killed because there are multiple sources for Jesus's crucifixion by the Romans. There were definitely hundreds of itinereant preachers who could've spawned religions. One of them, Jesus, led to Christianity and a complex web of mythologies were constructed around him after his death.
Rome killed him. What scholars, exactly, are arguing for an earlier century?
Most of the Pauline Epistles were indisputably written by a dude named Paul in the Levant a few decades after Jesus's death. He wrote about James. He wrote about actually existing churches and conflicts. These were not constructed a century later (except for the ones that obviously were,which has been determined via textual criticism and analysis) - they are much closer to contemporary than most classical historical figures! Just because it is in the Bible doesn't mean it's automatically fake. It is a corpus to which we can apply historical criticism like any other, not some exceptional fabrication.
No, there's a point here. While history might be unable to converge on a lot of figures who actually lived due to poor recordkeeping and the inherent unreliability of a predominantly oral tradition, I was pointing out the alternative possibility that he was a composite figure based on multiple dudes who might've shared superficial similarities with the fictional character in the book but which can't be localized to a specific personality. The idea that that there was a Real Historical Jesus that was the prime mover for the ideological offshoot that went on to become Christianity ignores the more reasonable possibility that the movement arose as the result of the coordinated actions of a lot of people who converged on an account of a life that could have happened
The non-Christian sources all leave a lot to be desired. From the RationalWiki article:
In addition to Paul writing about events two decades after the fact and never actually meeting Jesus,
Just because he talks about real stuff doesn't mean he can't also be making stuff up or embroidering actual events with fictional details. The existence to churches dedicated to Jesus also doesn't really say much, since there are a lot of churches dedicated to fictional entities.
Majority is a pretty bold statement. There are aspects without historical support, jews were most likely never Egyptian slaves and were probably a sect within the Canaanites that grew to dominance. I woild say that literal divine intervention is ahistorical, but while for sure skewed to the side of the writers, there is a solid amoimt of historical support behind the broad strokes of events in the Bible. The specifics and the god stuff isnprivsvlt made up but to say the vast majority has no historical support is absurd.
The majority of the new testament is personal testimony that was handed down by word of mouth for generations before actually being written down......
??? why does so much indicating that pontius pilate was being pressured by Jewish leaders come up when i google it
Because it really seems like the state executed him... at the behest of local reactionaries
The local compradors didn't have control over the Roman state apparatus by virtue of being colonized subjects. Pilate indeed had Jesus's blood on his hands and no amount of making a public spectacle by washing his hands changes this. The only person who outranked Pilate was the Roman emperor himself, which meant everything fell on his shoulders. He could've just freed Jesus and there was no one there to stop him because Pilate had a Roman legion under his command while the Judean compradors didn't.
According to this shit he had 6k soldiers in a city of 2.5 million so uhhhh i don't think things work the way youse guys do
Simply put, the article you link is wrong. 2.5 million number should have been a big red flag, actual estimates for the population of Jerusalem in those times are 20 to 30 thousand, swelling to 100,000 or more during the passover festival but still an order of magnitude lower than that article is claiming.
I picked one link that wasn't a reddit thread because I assumed the BBC is an actual source, i don't care enough to go through all this shit but my point was "there was no one there to stop him" is false whether it's 2.5 million or 100k. I also see tons of nerds arguing over the estimate of the actual strength of his army, I see one nerd claim he'd only have an auxiliary cohort of 600 "but could call on herod's army of around 3000 if necessary but that would have been politically awkward
There is no set of numbers im seeing here where "the romans can just do whatever the fuck they want and pontius pilate should have absolutely 0 concern over unrest" is guaranteed
A few thousand troops seems like plenty to maintain order at a festival in a city with 100,000 men women and children, many of whom probably didn’t have strong feelings one way or the other about Jesus or might have sided with him over the religious establishment. More soldiers could be called up from nearby if really necessary. All we know for sure is Pilate was the one with the legal authority to carry out execution and he chose to do it in the particularly Roman style of crucifixion.
It's a whole region though
Most people supported or were apathetic towards Jesus because Jesus was just some random dude up until that point, or a charismatic dude who performed miracles if we take the gospel as gospel (lol). Going by history, Jesus was just some dude who most people wouldn't care about one way or another and going by the gospels, Jesus was a charismatic miracle worker who most people liked because of his miracles.
The amount of people who genuinely wanted Jesus dead probably numbered in what, several hundreds at best. An entire Roman legion is shaking in their sandals over several hundred unarmed Judeans who really wanted some dude dead but lacked the initiative to just form a lynch mob and string him up a tree.
Yea but which several hundreds, and how influential were they
I found a shitty source with bad numbers and then another shitty source that questions him even having a legion so could you give me at least an equivalently shitty source that he even did?
What if several hundred influential judeans who wanted him dead were pissed off at that not happening and then used any number of reasons to rile up many thousands of others in revolt, or what if pontius pilate was made to credibly fear that result even if it weren't likely
Why was he arrested btw because idk it seems like there'd a reason for that since nameless nobodies don't just stumble onto a crucifix
What are you seeing that's indicating that? What's understood about the hospital Jesus is very slim. He was a Galilean Jewish apocalyptic preacher. He was baptized by John the Baptist. He was crucified by the Roman state. Beyond that, nothing is certain. He probably has disciples. He was probably a miracle worker as was typical of his time. He probably caused some kind of stir at the Temple. That's about it.
Shit like this stating as fact that pontius pilate was worried about unrest and rioting if he didn't crucify him