this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2026
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So, not to defend Tolkien here, I'll be the first to admit that his books have A LOT of reactionary undercurrents, despite personally having enjoyed them. But there is a scene in the original books (that I think got cut in the theatrical release of the movies) where Sam finds the body of an Easterling and realizes that the guy probably wasn't "evil", but just a normal guy with a home and a family who likely got drafted into this conflict to fight with Sauron without even knowing who that was or why the war was being fought.
It was definitely cut from both versions of the movies
And I have seen the extended editions
I think it does show up in the director's cut but they have Faramir say it instead of Sam. But it was pretty dumb to cut it out completely cuz it does establish that the humans who allied with Sauron aren't inherently evil, they just allied with him for geopolitical reasons. They also cut out a scene where Sam overhears some Orcs complaining that they hate serving in Sauron's army and would prefer to return to a life of banditry and looting if they could, which was also dumb.
I'm not a super lore master, but it's my understanding that a lot of Sauron's allies like some of the hill tribes join him because the people of the west were colonisers that kicked them out of their land in the first place. So obv Sauron is evil, but the kingdoms like Gondor gave people plenty of reason to want to fight them.
The dunlendings used to live on the land that is now Rohan. The rohirrim descended down from the north and kicked them out. Those dunlendings are the hill tribes.
The Haradrim and Gondor had been fighting over harondor and the surrounding area forever.
The Rhunnic tribes and Gondor had been fighting over the northeastern border forever too. I think Aragorn led a campaign against them shortly after the war of the ring.
When the Numenorians landed in eriador they kicked out the local enedwaith peoples.
They're colonizing hella
I'm not a lore expert either but yeah I think it is established that some of the Easterling kingdoms primarily allied with Sauron due to previous conflicts with Gondor.
I am and that is the broad strokes. It is also possible that some were still ruled by the dark Numenoreans who worshipped morgoth who colonized the place in the 2nd age and didnt due when Numenor was sank cause they were in their colonies.
Yeah, gondor sucking is part of why tolkien never wrote a sequel to lotr. He was pretty much like "yeah theyre gonna go evil again within a century lol"
canonically they became England
Theyre more inspired by Rome or Greece imo
In terms of tolkien's "the lotr is anciente history of real world" idea, the lotr is antediluvian i.e. pre-noah, i.e. c. 5,000-8,000 bce depending on which medieval catholic chronology tolkien followed. In terms of catholic folklore, gondor cant become england because it will be drowned in the noah era flood.