this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2026
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vegans as well as linux users are nowhere near as outspoken and petty as they are made out to be. personally i find jokes about that insufferable and ubiquitous. The ratio of jokes about this to actually people like this existing is like 100:1. my theory is, They get so much shit because them just existing reminds people of their own shortcommings, instead of applauding people doing the effort to pioneer a better world these people decide to make a snarky remark and continue being lazy and annoying with these jokes.
I know quite a few vegans in my life who are amazing, nonjudgmental people. On Lemmy, I've been called a "murderer" and a "carnist" for mentioning I'm reducing my meat consumption.
Doesn’t carnist just mean someone who eats meat?
no. it's a term made up by vegans to describe people who don't have their ideology. just like how Christians talk about sinners
Yeah, most terms are made up. In this case the alternative is “non-vegan non-vegetarian” so I think making up a shorter term is worthwhile lol
What was wrong with "omnivore"?
all terms are made up. this one in particular was made up by vegans to identify non-believers.
It does. It's just a word for people who follow the belief that it's normal, natural, and necessary to consume animals.
Since those people are the invisible majority, it's often taken as an insult to have their 'normal' status get a label. Veganism is the belief that we shouldn't exploit and harm animals, carnism is the belief that we should.
Which is hilarious in hindsight, because the reverse happens in other topics. Call someone in other circles 'normal' and they'll throw 15 label names at you for why they're not normal.
Carnism would still technically cover "vegan plus (animal-based) bacon". That's kinda like saying you're an atheist but believe in (insert god here).
And this all-or-nothing approach is precisely what I'm referring to. I consider myself pretty well-read, and the only time I've ever seen the word "carnist" used in the wild is when someone who's vegan is hurling it as an insult
It's not all or nothing, it's definitional! Why even have words describing concepts if everyone makes up their own version just to get mad at it.
Veganism is based on anti-speciesism, the philosophical belief that discrimination based solely (SOLELY) on species is immoral. It makes perfect sense, then, to find a word that describes the opposite stance. Carnism is that word.
This is, quite frankly, just as ridiculous as TERFs getting pissed at being called "cis". Or "TERF", for that matter. It's entirely reasonable that someone might not like people holding opposing philosophical views (TERFs, carnists), but that does NOT make those words insults in and of themselves.
All this is ENTIRELY divorced from whether reducing meat consumption is good (it is!).
Sorry to break it to you, but if you believe that the Christian god exists yet don't think there was ever a guy named Jesus that rose from the dead after 3 days, you're still a theist even if you call it atheist.
And if you think it's acceptable to kill pigs because you like their cooked bodies, you're still practicing carnism even if you call it veganism.
"I'm reducing my meat consumption by doing (x)."
"Fuck off, carnist!"
It really isn't being used that way when the intention is flagrantly insultive.
Lemmy has plenty of mentally unwell people, who feel identifying strongly with some or another cause gives their life meaning.
Yup. I posted the canadian food "plate" in one of the vegan communties as a sanier counterexample to the new US inverted meat pyramid. Canada fought its Ag industry tooth and nail to publish it. The pretty reasonable "protein" section is largly beans, nuts, fish and then red meat, in a way that mirrors actual health recommendations instead of industry demands.
I specifically called it a better version that recommended eating less meat. Immediatly hit with "all meat is murder" and had my comment deleted within the hour.
It doesnt change my personal views on veganism, but it did tell me not to interact with the community here, which is unfortunate. Id like to get more input and perspectives, and hell even recipe recommendations, but nah.
You went to a vegan community and posted propaganda advocating consumption of animals and you're surprised at the response?
I went to a vegan community, agreeded that the US "EAT ALL THE RED MEAT" food guideline was asinine, then offered a "eat much less meat" option with an explicit statement that "it isnt ideal from a vegan perspective, but better."
Yes, I was surprised by the poor response. I'm offering support for reducing meat consumption, and was met by "good is not perfect so fuck you" zealotry. Its fine if they dont want non vegans to interact and learn more about veganism, but it would have been better to put that on the sidebar so those of us "interested, but not converted" stay out.
please go ahead and share the discussion with us
I speak from personal experience. I once tried talking about reducing meat consumption and got attacked. Never again.
I got banned from a vegan community for calling someone out for equating meat consumption with domestic violence.
You think violence and violence aren't comparable?
Comparing eating meat with domestic violence is a laughable comparison and disingenuous at best. It's attitudes like that that make the average person unable to take vegans seriously.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Vegan, is in fact, bacon/Vegan, or as I've recently taken to calling it, bacon plus Vegan. Vegan is not an diet unto itself, but rather another component of a fully functioning diet system made useful by the bacon, grease and vitals destroying components comprising a full obesity as defined by WHO.
most people are chill, but there are people who act like if you aren’t a vegan or a linux user, you are an evil and morally compromised person
which is understandable coming from vegans, imo. bad tactic and all but yeah, animal consumption is pretty messed up.
coming from linux evangelists it’s fucking laughable
All the linux "evangelists" I've seen online just shitpost with inside jokes, or talk about the benefits of FOSS, or explain what makes google and microsoft such evil companies, or post genuinely helpful content about software alternatives or advice for making the switch.
I've never seen a rabid linux user. On the other hand, some vegans get so rabid that they actually chase people away from their cause. You're never going to get people to change a core aspect of their lives such as eating habits by insulting them and going on a tirade about why they're evil.
For what it's worth, I've spent years as a vegetarian, and it took me years before that to gradually reduce my meat consumption to zero. I tried going vegan a few times but I would get grumpy, lethargic, and start craving things like cheese and eggs.
There is no room in vegan spaces online to talk about the process of reducing consumption or the struggle associated with it. That's pretty detrimental to the goal of a 100% meat-free society.
The only way we'll ever eliminate factory farming is through slow-incremental change. But the average vegan will never accept that. They're a classic example of "letting perfection be the enemy of progress."
A "rabid" vegan turned me vegan. There was some thread on reddit about dogs or animals. It's Reddit, so obviously crazy claims and discussions happened. One was a typical 30 comment deep discussion with a vegan. I thought he was a dickhead, like all vegans, injecting his preaching anywhere he could, like all vegans.
That's why I started researching veganism. I wanted to prove to him that he was obviously wrong. Jokes on me though, because he was right. Roughly 4 months later, I was vegan.
I think non-vegans MASSIVELY underestimate the bubble they live in. What kind of vegan will ever reach the average persons feed or frontpage? It's not the calm, nicely argued one. Just like with the "angry, yelling, colored hair feminazi", the only vegans reaching most people are the most aggressive, most divisive vegans. That says absolutely nothing about vegans in generally, but everything about how filter bubbles work.
I can't see into what your experience has been, but I can give my own 2 cents: 99% of the time people say vegans are aggressive or uncompromising, the non-vegans are just wrong. Secondly, I've had many a horrible experience with feminists (and anti-racists etc.) online. Yet, none of that kept me from doing genuine research and becoming "woke", and I most definitely didn't use the terminally online versions of a movement as a indictment of the validity of the movement.
idk the amount of times I've tried to explain my wife and kid's dietary restrictions that mean veganism is basically impossible for us in other places I get a lot of hate.
The kids are autistic and have major taste and texture aversions, which maybe we could work around with the right things. My wife though had a malabsorptive bariatric surgery that means she needs to eat Low carb, High protein, and most importantly Low volume meals. When you need like 1.5 cups of beans to get the same protein as like 3oz of ground beef and only have a 6 ounce stomach volume you kinda have to go with the one that gives you the most protein for the least volume.
well, akschually, assuming all that is true, at least your wife and kids are vegan, or could be. In the end, veganism is about doing what is "possible and practicable".
That being said, have you checked out TVP or seitan? They can roughly match protein content of most meat.
Finally, if you generally believe in the idea behind veganism, every little bit helps. Strangers on the internet can't really see though what exactly you could do. If you do what you can, that's already enough.
I haven't actually heard of TVP, I've heard of seitan though I've never had the chance to try it. But yeah that's the big problem, most of the plant based proteins that I'm aware of are either very high carb or you need a large volume of them to get that protein content. Both of which don't work with her restrictions.
I don't have particularly high hopes for seitan given what I've heard about it as far as like the texture aversions in the house go. She's in the spectrum too and most likely where there kids get it from. She actually got kind of informally diagnosed through them being diagnosed before her health started really going downhill. But I'm willing to give anything a shot, especially if there's a chance to make the food budget stretch a bit more with all these dietary restrictions in the house with our limited income. I'll be on the lookout for them.
I could imagine vegans being upset if you weren't vegan solely because your wife and kids can't be (like they are a shield or something, idk). Modern veganism should be about harm reduction. I know someone mentioned beans but I think seitan has more protein per punch (has more than steak according to a random google, *forgot about the carb limit tho, it looks like it wouldn't go over too much but depends on the source). I don't have much experience with your family's conditions. I need a bunch of fiber or else I get severely constipated, I was shocked at how little your wife gets. Sorry you got hate for your wife and kids. It sounds like your wife was (is?) in a bad spot, I hope her recovery gets better.
*edit
The only problem with that is we live on a fixed budget as I don't work since they all need varying degrees of care around the clock. We live entirely off my wife's disability and whatever assistance programs we qualify for. I have neither the time, the energy, nor the money to prepare meals for myself entirely separate from their dietary restrictions.
Each kid eats maybe a dozen things themselves, 20 for the oldest, and there's maybe 6 that overlap between them. By the time I've figured out what they're willing to eat and made it I almost zero desire to even look at food let alone prepare an entirely separate vegan meal with all of that no money I have to purchase vegan ingredients that again likely nobody but me would be able to eat.
(Edit: I should add I'm not completely against the idea of changing my own diet. It's just that by the time I'm feeding myself I'm so done with the whole thing that my "diet" is whatever I can easily shove in my food hole without fussing too much about it)
That sounds really rough, sorry you are going through this. I am also on disability and welfare and have a caregiver partner (so my benefits meant for 1 person have to be stretched for 2), but I do not have children (let alone disabled children). I'm guessing your wife isn't able to eat the seitan after all? That sucks. Seitan is chewier than tofu or tempeh but you know your kids the best. I hope you hang in there. You are doing your best and it is appreciated. I've read about caregiver burnout before, the suffering the people around us go through is awful. Fuck the system we live in.
I'm not sure we've never actually found seitan around to try it. Wholeheartedly agree about the caregiver burnout and the way the system works though. So much "invisible" care work it just expected to be done for free with zero support it's crazy.
The wildest part about that to me was that Medicare would pay me to care for her... if we weren't married. But because we are I'm ineligible for that.
Omg yeah, the system does not want disabled people married!!! Once a disabled person marries, their disability income gets cut and chore services gets cut. What a load of bs, both partners need to have an income in this stupid economy just to be able to live and a partner will absolutely burnout without support. It's the main reason I can't marry. If I marry, I essentially lose all of my benefits (also how is a limit of $3k in total assets for a married couple fair?!). Disabled people are penalized for having any type of savings or assets like life insurance ffs. Even with chore services, insurance will makeup excuses like some hypothetical person is providing free support and thus they don't give as many hours. Getting paid is a mess because of the EVV crap to "prevent fraud" aka just more spyware embedded in your phone. I've actually heard of people getting legal divorces just to get around this crap. Also people like me who can't get married but are terrified of being found to be "holding out" on marriage which can cause benefits to be cut completely. I've read articles on people having children out of wedlock (not that there is anything wrong with that) simply because of the disability welfare system. IT SUCKS.
omg right? My partner and I probably wouldn't have married either. At minimum not when we did, but we had a bit of a scare years ago with her late ex-spouse's family possibly thinking about fighting me for custody of the oldest of anything happened to her during the initial health scare that put her on disability to begin with from the pseudotumor.
It's a long story but the short version is that basically no court out here wanted to touch letting me adopt our oldest because they wouldn't accept the proof that the other bio parent was deceased. So when she got put on disability and that overtook the survivor benefits we decided the best thing for us was to marry so we could guarantee a bit better that he stayed with me if anything happened to her.
So I mean this from a place of curiosity not trying to get you all to change anything, I'm not even vegetarian. Is there a particular reason your wife couldn't do several smaller meals over the day? Like do their organs not allow something like that anymore or more like it would be ridiculous to carry around a bag of beans to snack on over the course of 4 hours?
I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm going to be adding some addendums/emphasis and providing some additional context for some things about her condition in here. I do not mean any of this to say that I believe that you personally are or plan on discounting her condition. It is meant only for emphasis because the particular bariatric surgery she had, the Duodenal Switch is significantly more involved than most other surgeries. A lot of people end up having to have the surgery partially reversed because they can't keep up with the vitamin supplementation and end up hospitalized and dying of malnutrition.
The malabsorption means that's already what she has to do. Then each of those meals needs to hit certain macros while being under that volume.
So like to give an example. She needs at least 200g of protein in a day while staying as far under 50g of carbs as possible (fiber included) to not be utterly miserable. That's not "the doctor told me to get this much" they told her to go for 150g. That's the levels she's found over the years result in her not being in significant gastrointestinal distress and actually having decent energy levels along with the roughly 50 vitamin supplements she HAS TO TAKE TO NOT DIE OF MALNUTRITION because and I cannot stress this enough the malabsorption means she CANNOT properly absorb most of these vitamins from food. They need to be very specific formulations at specific times of day to keep her levels up. Like 125,000IU+ PER DAY of Vitamin A (This is WILL KILL YOU levels for a normal person BTW) to still be partially night blind from deficiency (yes she has seen a doctor about it)
That 1.5 cups of black beans is around 22.5g of protein and 60g of carbs. So that's 2 entire "meals" of nothing but beans to have a little over 1/10th of the protein she needs in a day and 20% over the entire day's limit for carbs.
One might think "Why get this surgery then?" if it's like this. Which is a fair question. For my wife in particular she had a condition called pseudotumor cerebri where she was producing too much cerebrospinal fluid and not getting rid of it fast enough. She was significantly overweight at the time and had this issue before. It resolved temporarily when she lost weight but due to heavy food insecurity and other trauma when she was younger she struggled to keep the weight off. So she had 2 options: Aggressive weight loss from bariatric surgery, or getting a shunt implanted in her skull to drain the fluid. She chose the bariatric surgery that gave her the best chance of not still needing the shunt, which was the DS. Since having severe OCD she knew for a fact she could keep up with the vitamin supplementation and use managing the vitamins as an adaptive outlet for the OCD.
Why specific formulations and times for vitamins? A couple reasons, one is ease of absorption. Certain formulations have to be basically digested a little first to get properly absorbed which because of the surgery her body just doesn't properly do. This is basically why she needs the supplements to begin with. Since her body only properly digests part of what she eats she doesn't actually absorb a bunch of the nutrients from it and needs to supplement the vitamins her body can't absorb well from food. The second is that certain vitamins interfere with the absorption of others, calcium inhibiting iron absorption for example.
They are two very different things to discuss. First, eating is vital, computing with computers is not. People eat to survive and 44% of the people in the world live in poverty, so they probably don't get to choose what to eat to survive. This statistic takes China into account, outside of China, the fight against poverty is way more ineffective, to put it mildly. The USA has been okay with an increasing amount of poor people, in the range of 10-15% by more than half a century. There are countries with >80% of people living in poverty in Africa.
But even if you can choose, my opinion is that achieving a balanced diet is the goal, not being a vegan.