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Yes, Joe. You always were. You are the villain in the story that made all of this possible.
Yes but rogan's betrayal was not possible without the party forcing unwinnable strategies with the most unpopular choice, without a single challenge. None for house or senate either.
First thing is first, the dem party running opposition is multiplying this massive formula by zero right at the start.
Kamala was objectively a better choice than Trump, it was obvious to anyone who wasn't brain rotted by people like Rogan.
Syphillis is objectively better than aids.
But it was not going to win the election, much less restore the republic.
We knew being not the other guy was not enough, that the other guys are nazis, that the electorate does not know that.
So explain to me why forcing a doomed to fail strategy is not disqualifying for dem establishment figures?
Even now you regurgitate their projections of blame? Why should anyone trust your analysis of anything if you still trust those establishment conservatives to run the dem party while you are at it?
This is parody, right?
You cannot be serious. I levied questions about how the election was thrown by the dems from the start.
You cannot answer with reason.
The reasonable choice was to vote for Kamala out of sheer harm reduction. Throwing a hissy fit and taking your ball and going home because you think we should be playing a different game helped nobody.
You are vote shaming which is neither here nor there.
The question is knowing status quo candidates whose only selling point is they are harm reduction, was not enough to win, let alone with the most unpopular candidate they had on offer, never breaching 30 pc approval all term pre anointation, the vp of a prez at 40 pc for 3 years.
You knew the situation, but trusted the same people that gave us hillary and biden, to run a doomed to fail strategy.
So how is it reasonable to appoint kamala, and accept her and the status quo strategy knowing it was throwing the game?
Yes, I am vote shaming. You don't seem to understand that you had two options. Harris could have been the second shittest candidate to ever run for the office and she still would have been a preferable choice. I think that by failing to oppose mask-off fascism in this admittedly tiny but still quite meaningful way, you do bear some small amount of blame for the state of things.
To wit: If you couldn't hold your nose and vote for a bad candidate to stop the candidate who everyone knew would be much worse, I do not want to form a coalition with you and I certainly do not want to climb into a trench with you.
You are still making the better candidate argument. Rather ad nauseum too.
That argument is superceded by knowing the lesser of argument would fail, you chose it anyway.
You chose a failed strategy, now are blaming everyone else, rather insufferably at that, assuming peoples' votes to further obscuring the issue.
You helped the republicans win more than the maga voters.
I'm not sure where you are getting this delusion that I chose any sort of strategy. She was a shit candidate. If I could have stopped them from anointing her, I would have. They didn't ask me. My best option -- everyone's best option -- was still to vote for her, because the alternative was worse.
Yet you aggressively pass the buck for those that did force her, blaming everyone else?
So the same people are in charge to do it again.
I don't believe you either, I bet you yelled down everyone advocating for a winning candidate and or a winning strategy. If you believed the establishment in blaming voters for their doomed strategy, you trusted them to know what they are doing.
Take some responsibility, you knew or should've known people would not choose the lesser of two evils indefinitely, especially with the country ratcheting so hard to the plutocracy. As if the status quo was acceptable at this point. How divorced are you from reality?
I can't take you seriously, man. You don't appear to understand how power works, or how movements work, or how organizations work. You will never convince me of this idea that somehow not voting for the lesser of two evils in the primary would have improved where we find ourselves right now. I will never convince you that Harris, flawed status-quo neolib that she was, would have been much less bad than unrepentant fascism. This conversation is a waste of my time, and yours (however much that's worth). Have a good day.
I didn't read that drivel. Projection if I've ever seen it. You are hopeless if 2024 didn't wake you up.
Bruh I don't think they're the hopeless one in this discussion. 🙄
No, I am sure it's the one defending the democratic establishment that is in the right! gtfo.
It woke me up. People like yourself are dead weight and your type outnumbers my type in the left. So I'm riding out the end of days in hedonism. Going to fuck, drink, and play video games when I'm not working. Maybe save some money instead of donating or contributing to see if I can ride this shit out in some small way.
I canvassed for Harris because of the threat Trump's second term posed. I risked losing my job by hammering on about how people need to vote to keep him out of office. I finally fully destroyed a number of family relations by bringing up Trump enough times.
And after all that the establishment liberals failed and the leftists don't fucking care enough to prevent fascists from winning. They both suck.
That doesn't mean I'm going to fucking die in a stupid doomed revolution, holy shit. How fucking delusional.
That the US population is so astoundingly stupid as to let Trump win a 2nd god damned time means a majority of people are not worth fighting for. And the people worth fighting for are screwed no matter how hard I try because people like you drag us into hell.
So go ahead and not vote this year. Or 2028. Or hell vote for Trump. I don't give a fuck anymore because it hardly matters. The poster you were talking to seems to still care but I think they're wasting their time. We're already doomed, and 2024 proved it. Even if a democrat wins, it'll just be anti-incumbent bias and a republican fascist will be right in office again in 2032. The US is an absolute sea of retards.
I didn't read that drivel past the first sentence. Typical, projecting onto your victims, in this case those trying to get a winning strategy.
The strategy of sitting on the sidelines because Kamala didn't promise you a fucking pony? How well is that working out for you?
You... already used that line.
Stop refusing to answer the question honestly and I would've stopped repeating it.
But now we can stop, because absent an argument with merit, considering I reject everything you think now without addressing the original question, I will ignore you.
You refused to read that comment past the first sentence, how do you know they didn't answer the question honestly or had a meritless argument?
Why would strategy matter anymore?
Actually, I didn't get any options because I live in a red state and my vote doesn't count. Stop pretending we have democracy.
You will never be the swing voter, but the only way your vote doesn't count at all is if you don't cast it. The republicans have fought for half a century to suppress voter turnout, and sadly it has worked. Throwing up your hands and saying "well, if they don't want me to vote I suppose I simply will not vote" is worse than useless.
Throwing your vote into a hungry pit is also worse than useless. Trump didn't even get a majority! President 49.9 enjoys power solely because the electoral system is anti-democratic and doesn't do runoffs, and he only won the first time because of the electoral college. He attempted a fucking coup and we didn't put him in prison, and as a result Jan 6th is the most successful US political movement in my lifetime. This country is fucked, and it's clear Republicans have no plans to allow any electoral input ever again.
Will there even be midterms? Who knows! It's time to think about what you'll do when you can't vote anymore.
This is what grinds my gears about getting into discussions with people who take your position. I do not have to make apologies for the undemocratic first-past-the-post system, or the undemocratic electoral college. Had more people voted, the fix would not have worked. Rigged elections can be overwhelmed, especially when they are being attacked from the outside.
I am thinking about what I'll do when I can't vote anymore. And it does not involve common cause with people who do not understand basic strategy.
The vast majority of US citizens did not vote for Harris. Are you going to write off a majority of the country?
Well they're not gonna do anything anyway, so I might as well.
That's 71.4% of the country you're writing off. You're setting yourself up to lose.
A lot of the protesters in the streets are people who don't vote for Harris and you have to recon with that. Voting is merely one tactic among many, there are lots of ways to be involved in politics. The fact that someone disagrees with you about a single tactic doesn't mean they're irrelevant, it just means you have to find common ground in other ways.
Or we're all going to die.
Awww did your feelings get hurt?
I'm Canadian dipshit, I don't have any particular connection to one party or the other. It was clear as day that Kamala was a status quo politician, and Trump was going to do pretty much what he is doing. Actually I didn't think Trump would be this bad in fact.
There is just no universe where you justify that having a milquetoast politician is worse than whatever the fuck this fascist nightmare is. And it was clear as day to anyone who wasn't an abject moron.
You call me a dipshit, but I knew kamala would lose and you did not.
What does that make you?
Buddy your country is collapsing to dogshit, and you're proud about the fact that you knew it would happen and you voted for it?
I hope you're not a real person because if you are I suspect a serious TBI and your family members might be in danger.
What are you doing actively helping to ratfuck the opposition party anyway? Insufferable to the end. Enjoy your own ratfucked politics, you earned what you will end up with.
Joe...?
Do you think voting works like betting?
The dude is so petty he's applying his single meagre downvote to every one of the people that calls him out on his bullshit. He's so fired up over it he simply must downvote it, in order to flex even the extremely minimum amount of power he has.
Thankfully, I don't think he is representative of the majority of Americans, if he is American at all.
Answer the question. How is a doomed to fail strategy other peoples' fault?
You better chase after that other poster, because that's not something I ever said.
You are sitting here castigating me for saying the establishment democrats threw the game. Now you are passing the buck for how you pass the buck for those establishment democrats. Typical.
Haha both sides bad haha
Typical, counter attacking, however lamely, to avoid taking responsibility. You have no logical arguments so you have to resort to those tricks the dem establishment taught you to stop any realignment.
More proof your analysis, stated opinions, are worth nothing to those in reality. Either pretending to believe dems are a credible party and lying to our faces, or believing it.
If the former you would think neoliberal surrender to fascists is in your interest, so your understanding is laughably wrong and disqualifying in either case.
Not entirely sure why you're getting downvoted, yeah, I'm sure not close to a fraction of what has happened would happen under Kamala, but, they are beholden to the exact same billionaire Epstein class donors that the other side was, and she wouldn't have cut out the rot that was festering in the idiot swamp. It would just keep festering.
We certainly have the benefit of hindsight, and I could have told any one it would be bad, but a lot of this seems like it might have been inevitable one way or another. You might as well call the dems controlled opposition with how inept they've been in the face of existential threat. The fight is hardly left/right, it's up/down. It's just the upper class knows to use the violent people in the lower class against each other, through desperation and propaganda, while they all collude at the top.
The dems are still playing good cop to r bad, for donors. Ratcheting to plutocracy.
But r's are not playing bad cop, they are playing hitler, in the open, for a faction of that plutocracy. We all knew it or should have. Anointing kamala without challenge to run as status quo against a reform ticket is beyond foolish, into knowingly throwing the game.
Arguing kamala is better misses that she could not win and anyone that did not realize that lacks credibility on any subject.
Until they admit they were wrong to trust the establishment, and outlines how they are going to change that.
Frankly it is the least they must do if we want to take the country from the party openly planning on fixing elections and persecuting the opposition and you know, the whole nazi thing.
Probably too late already. Maybe a chance in the succession, with a Popular Reform ticket aggressively pursuing a New Deal.