this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2025
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Anarchism
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Discuss anarchist praxis and philosophy. Don't take yourselves too seriously.
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Basic knowledge of material analysis, class consciousness and reading sources besides r*ddit
You know, ultimately arriving at the objectively and morally correct position, also known as "tankie" according to liberals.
Anyways, how about a pop quiz - What side were the "tankies" whom you so detest, on during the Apartheid?
Buddy come the fuck on, the pinned post on this community is literally a start-to-finish group reading of Anarchist FAQ, which is >1000 pages in print and contains citations to hundreds of other pieces of anarchist literature. And I know you have Marxist-Leninists who don't do the reading either. We also have engineers who don't do the reading because turns out, that's just a thing that happens in groups where you're expected to do a lot of reading: you get people who want to be there but won't or can't do the reading.
Anti-apartheid, which is why we're speaking. That doesn't mean you're immune to possibly criticism. Same goes double for fellow anarchists.
Also, since you originally posted a picture of Mao referencing his treatment of landlords: I don't oppose the violence against landlords. I oppose the retention of a State to do so.
uncritical support to the state in liquidating landlords and slave-owners
Yeah but I don't have to support the existence of the state even in the rare moment it does good things. For example, just because the serial killer down the street kills a landlord doesn't mean I have to support the serial killer or serial killers in general, in particular any of the other people killed by the serial killer.
Principally, I would say that I'm more convinced by the argument that a state is necessary to engage in class warfare, and that therefore a proletarian state is a necessary precondition to the creation of socialism, than I am by the idea that the abolition of the state outright is capable of accomplishing anything besides creating a power vacuum.
Historically, anarchist and communist movements look very similar when they actually get their hands on power, because the reality of doing things at scale in an industrialized society overrides whatever perfect theory the revolutionaries had in their minds when they started.
Yeah they look similar to outsiders, but it is my view that they aren't internally similar, and that we can absolutely find fundamental differences in the outcomes of marxist and anarchist projects.
Can you elaborate on the outcomes of anarchist projects?
It makes total sense to have a strong moral aversion to the state because it's inherently an oppressive institution that operates as a protection racket and an instrument of class power. There's more to the Marxist critique of the state than that, not just a moral opposition but a functional one that identifies the ways the contradictions inherent to the state, much like capitalism's contradictions, will bring about its sublation.
But the question I've always had for anarchists is that, hey, it's definitely true that the state is a tool for the ruling class to oppress the other classes and all that; but if we're locked into a global struggle to end capitalism, a historical process that develops unevenly, isn't it completely necessary for the proletariat – in the nation-states where it succeeds in overthrowing the capitalists – to wield that power if it's going to win? Wouldn't anything else require that every arena of class struggle around the world just spontaneously defeat the capitalist state at once, so that no remaining states can colonize one another?
Let me put it this way: if socialism/communism/anarchism/whatever is going to win, it has to defeat a lot of state militaries that actively seek it out and destroy it when given the opportunity. Think NATO. Russia is fighting NATO indirectly in Ukraine right now. Russia, with the full power of the state to draft conscripts against their will, an enormous military-industrial complex, advanced drone technology, and air superiority (-ish) only advances some few meters into Ukraine every day. And that's with NATO being unable to deploy their troops directly. So the revolutionary forces on our side have to fight the same enemy, right? Except in the case of a revolutionary war, capital is in an existential struggle that it will do anything to win, including another Holocaust. So how does a non-state militia fight that? Even in the case where you're not fighting them directly because you're a revolutionary outside of North America and Europe, what are you gonna do to defend your revolution when American and Western European billionaires go after your resources because they're no longer guarded by a comprador bourgeoisie?
And I don't mean this as a general criticism, I mean it as a very specific assessment of why (even as much as I might align with some of the morals) I can't really see eye to eye with an anarchist strategically. Obviously you can ask me why this matters when no flavor of the left has any kind of military presence in the West, so it's not like the MLs have a huge advantage in this particular arena. But I think that for me to take some revolutionary ideology seriously, it at least has to be possible. Otherwise I would just say I believed in anarchism but simply vote for liberals when no one is looking (i.e. what every single anarchist online who shamed other leftists for not voting for Biden or Kamala was doing).
In my estimation, socialist revolutions and national liberation movements will continue to happen in countries in the global south as the Western IMF/NATO/World Bank system loses its hegemony and climate crises break out in the next couple of decades. In all likelihood, those revolutions won't get rid of the state. They'll have neighbors that will still be in the neoliberal system with guns and US bases pointed at them, so they'll probably build more state. I think that the international capitalist class could only possibly be defeated with state actors like this stretching empire thin. I don't think there's any way in hell I could be convinced that those people should do the opposite and try organizing without a monopoly on violence.
Your thousand page zine is worthless
You know, Lenin often talked about the necessity to learn from all sources of knowledge, even bourgeois sources. I think it's pretty likely that Anarchists have very decent analysis and critique of capitalism that could be useful for anyone.
But it appears that unfortunately there's no one actually reading it based on how many comments from different users there are in that thread after a couple of weeks. TBH I only participated in Hexbear's anti-imperialist reading group for like 5 weeks myself, I guess it would be a good New Year's Resolution to get back to it.
I think that's extremely unlikely
Even if you read it to do exactly the opposite of everything they say, it still has value!
check my instance, friend.
Lol shit, friendly fire my bad
Implying your literature is not also a thousand page zine 😆 like that's not even an insult
Wrong and wrong
Tankies are people who justify state violence to enforce political orthodoxy. You have more in common with the Right Wing than the Left, bud.
Violence against evil people is good! Yes, even when done by a big scary state
Dehumanizing the Working Class as "evil people" is peak ML
you are so unbelievably reddit-minded it should be a crime
That's a new one. Usually the go-to ML insult against Leftists that don't agree with them is shitlibs. You get bonus points for creativity but fall utterly at defending your position.
you still are a shitlib, just sayin'