Yes really. There are a levels to comprehension. You can use UIs and menus with Lexical comprehension, that doesn't mean you can read well. Ability to use an interface is not comprehension, you're even admitting that yourself with your example? Just click around and learn what works, that's not comprehension. That doesn't mean a person has learned to read and comprehend, it just means they have specifically made themselves able to use that particular UI.

[–] godlessworm@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

you can absolutely build comprehension by just clicking around and figuring out what works. me saying that isn't "proving anything" lol. it's not the be-all end-all but you can absolutely learn and comprehend by doing that. tons of people who are professional video and photo editors or whatever else taught themselves exactly like that. you're taking what i said as "JUST click around til it works". that's not what i said. but that's kind of how people figured out literally everything ever and the basis for all comprehension. they just started fucking around til they comprehended what output their input created. and again you don't know what level of comprehension anybody you're speaking to has. for all you know they think you have low comprehension.

i think we just disagree on this, that's fine comrade.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

you can absolutely build comprehension by just clicking around and figuring out what works.

That's not reading comprehension. A person clicking around a bunch of menus can not read a piece of text and extract information from it.

This is a basic level 2 literacy question:

1 in 5 americans can't answer this question correctly currently and literacy is getting worse in america over time, these kids stand no chance.

Level 4 literacy (what I would consider a proper reading comprehension ability) is described as:

At level 4, adults can read long and dense texts presented on multiple pages in order to complete tasks that involve access, understanding, evaluation and reflection about the text(s) contents … Successful task completion often requires the production of knowledge-based inferences. Texts and tasks at Level 4 may deal with abstract and unfamiliar situations. They often feature both lengthy contents and a large amount of distracting information, which is sometimes as prominent as the information required to complete the task. At this level, adults are able to reason based on intrinsically complex questions that share only indirect matches with the text contents, and/or require taking into consideration several pieces of information dispersed throughout the materials. Tasks may require evaluating subtle evidence-claims or persuasive discourse relationships. Conditional information is frequently present in tasks at this level and must be taken into consideration by the respondent. Response modes may involve assessing or sorting complex assertions.

Only 12% of americans currently have this reading comprehension level.

[–] Marxism_Sympathizer@hexbear.net 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

yes, but this decline in literacy has been ongoing long before iphones and tiktok and what not

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

And for these kids it's going to get even worse. First their first 5 years are going to be learning from tiktok, then their school years are going to be them using AI to do all their work for them. They will learn very little.

[–] Marxism_Sympathizer@hexbear.net 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

i would want some hard proof this is actually what is going on rather than the same general decline in literacy that has been happening for decades

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You don't get that proof until after its harmed people. You have to exercise some judgement without evidence to get ahead of these things.

[–] Marxism_Sympathizer@hexbear.net 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

what is the solution you're proposing here to stop this then? in my experience with kids they're just using AI to get past BS busy work but dont actually trust it, have u seen where kids are starting to say "that's AI" to refer to any lie?

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 3 points 6 days ago

There needs to be a comprehensive education campaign for adults about the need for 1-5s to have actual engagement with learning tools, not just being plopped in front of tiktok for hours on end. Television was less harmful for these kids because they were being plopped in front of children's tv which was intentionally designed to be educational content.

For AI? There isn't a solution besides reworking our entire approach to work. Unsupervised work can not be trusted as a source of being the kid's own attempt at words anymore. Any progress gauging based on unsupervised work is not reliable.