The more coherent answer is the deceased lack inherent rights/liberties. At best, the living have duties to legacies & claims by descendants toward the deceased.

It’s call the Paradox of Tolerance

The paradox distorted by authoritarians to justify illegitimate force? Seems some non-liberals willfully find it "very difficult" "to understand".

text alternative

The True Paradox of Tolerance

By philosopher Karl Popper[^popper-source]

You think you know the Popper Paradox thanks to this? (👉 comic from pictoline.com)

Karl Popper: I never said that!

Popper argued that society via its institutions should have a right to prohibit those who are intolerant.

Karl Popper: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance.

For Popper, on what grounds may society suppress the intolerant? When they "are not prepared to meet on the level of rational argument" "they forbid their followers to listen to rational argument … & teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols". The argument of the intolerably intolerant is force & violence.

We misconstrue this paradox at our peril … to the extent that one group could declare another group 'intolerant' just to prohibit their ideas, speech & other freedoms.

Grave sign: "The Intolerant" RIP
Underneath it lies a pile of symbols for Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Black power. A leg labeled tolerance kicks the Gay Pride symbol into the pile.

Muchas gracias a @lokijustice y asivaespana.com

[^popper-source]: Source: The Open Society and Its Enemies, Karl R. Popper

[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I'd call this the early version, the one practiced by responsible institutions before fascism takes over. The late version being done by the people and their allies only after the fascists have already started to destroy the institutions and perpetuate violence.

It can be difficult to tell when is the right time, but yes, when it falls to the mob to enact (closer to the version I've laid out), the fascists have probably have gained too much ground.

[–] lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Authoritarianism wins when the people act authoritarian, ie, corrupt the legitimacy of their government by abandoning the protection of inalienable/universal/inherent rights & liberties. Your "remedy" is to kill the patient.

Society has been lazily disengaging from each other, segregating ourselves into ideological spaces where no one feels challenged to change their minds. Society isn't fully utilizing the classic remedies in a liberal democratic of speech, civic engagement, & political organization.

[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

"my" version is for when the Nazis have already taken power and are killing people. But I get it, you disagree with the actions of WW2 resistance movements...

...they happened AFTER institutions had fallen (hence, "late"), and people were being killed. So no, resistance movements aren't "killing the patient" the patient is already dying by the time they emmerge.

Popper is right about institutional power beforehand (protecting society from fascism "early"). I'm right about violent resistance movements once fascism is actively destroying institutions and killing people (then resistance movements must start protecting society).

[–] lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com -1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

“my” version is for when the Nazis have already taken power and are killing people.

Inconsistent with your prior remarks.

The faster you string fascists up, the better off society will be. The body? Who cares, do what you want with it.

It’s not fascist, to be “fascist against fascism”.

"Faster" is not after "Nazis have already taken power and are killing people". "String up" is force & violence. So, you're advocating force & violence before "the fascists" use force.

Per the above, you're "misconstruing the paradox". Intolerance of those who argue with force & violence is justified, and therefore, society is justified to not tolerate your force & violence.

you disagree with the actions of WW2 resistance movements

Nope, cool straw man.

Popper is right about institutional power beforehand (protecting society from fascism “early”).

Nope, straw man of Popper, again: learn to read.

"Killing the patient" means giving into fascists by corrupting the protection of inherent rights & liberties exactly as a fascist would want you to do. It doesn't matter that you do it to "beat fascists": you're still serving their goals like a useful idiot.

Protecting free society means protecting inherent rights & liberties from illegitimate authority, ie, freedom. The freedom of free society comes from the rule of law & that very thing you're arguing to erode.

[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago

Yeah I'm not doing this internet debate bro shit with you. I said what I said, my opinion on Nazism isn't up for debate. But also I got better things to do. Bye.