Lemmy Shitpost
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Fascists aren't people in most of the ways that matter.
They do have viable organs tho, if we wanted to address the shortage in an easy and ethical way.
By dehumanizing them you're no different. Treat your enemies with respect, they are human too, just dumb pieces of shit. Don't lower yourself to their level. Be better than them.
Keep pleading for their respect when they have a gun to the back of your head. I'm sure that will work.
The thing is, I'm not pleading for their respect. I won't get it. I just won't lower myself to their level so I will not grant them the argument "see, they are doing the same".
If you do not understand the principles of defending the humanity you love from the people who want to destroy it, then you are WORSE THAN USELESS. These people are actively destroying society and the very "humanity" you want to preserve... yet you still won't attack them??
You are nothing but a useful idiot to fascists with that kind of pacifist attitude... Literally. You are talking down others from action against the things you want to defend from... You're actively a turncoat against the humanity you want to defend. Seriously, pathetic.
Who said I won't attack them? Of course I would, and have. But within the law, without dehumanizing them.
You call me pathetic, although I'm actively fighting against the far right, oppression and crimes against humanity.
You, on the other hand, show you are just as bad as they are.
lol
their death camps will be perfectly legal
You equating someone who calls a Nazi sub-human with a nazi themselves DOES make you pathetic. You ARE pathetic for failing to realize that the Nazis BETRAY humnaity... yet you still want to be civil with them??
You are a pathetic failure of the Paradox of Tolerance when you tolerate Nazis existing but do not tolerate people calling nazis names... Genuinely, you have a child's outlook on life.
"Just as bad", yea, to someone whs too fucking stupid to understand how ugly self-defense can get... Again, you are a pathetic child.
Reflexive simplistic judgement without willingness to pull apart or confront uncomfortable ideas that may threaten orthodoxy; most antifascist thought.
Tbh, I do agree with him that we shouldn't dehumanize. Fascists are humans, who deserve to be put down. There. Easy. No dehumanization, and you can still say that they deserve bullets blowing their brains out the back their heads.
No, people who sherk their humanity, willingly and emphatically, do NOT deserve to be humanized. Yes, we need to remember they are humans, but they are terrible people who choose to be terrible. Only a fucking moron or a fellow terrible person thinks they deserve to be treated better than they treat others.
That's the excuse for Hamas to commit terrorist acts on Israel. It's also the excuse for Israel to commit the worst war crimes of this century by far. Lowering yourself to the level of the enemy makes you just as bad. Be better.
I think very little of them, I'm disgusted by them, I hate them with everything I've got, but I will not dehumanize them or justify crimes against humanity against them. No matter whether they would do that to me. They deserve consequences for their behavior. They need to be sentenced for their crimes. Legally, democratically, within the law. If we don't, how are we any different? They think they are better humans than others, you know, like the nazis. Untermenschen. If you're not a nazi, fascist or racist, you won't dehumanize others.
No matter who it is, people need to realize who are defending themselves and who are going out of their way to commit offenses. When it comes to politics, people conveniently forget bad people DO exist, on all sides.
It DOES NOT MATTER what is currently going on in the world. It DOES NOT MATTER if they claim to be humans. It DOES NOT MATTER if you want to continue calling them humans.
What you need to learn is... these are humans who willingly betray the humanity you claim to want to defend... yet you continue to defend them, all in the name of some childish idea of "justice".
I agree things should be done legally where possible. What you need to learn is the law is not good! It doesn't create justice. It doesn't create peace. They're just rules people are supposed to follow, good or bad.
What DOES matter, is people like you constantly running interference for literally and directly evil people. Stop equating people defending themselves with people who want to commit the offenses. There is a HUGE difference between someone doing something bad to defend their own freedom, and someone who wants to go out of their way to remove someone else's freedom.
You can treat them as humanely as you want. What you NEED to learn is... they are enemies of the humanity you want to protect! Literally, directly, enemies of humanity. Why do you insist on equating them with people on defense?
This is a topic about literal nazis, remember. Why do you equate people calling Nazis sub-human with nazis, when nazis are the ones who DIRECTLY AND WILLINGLY betray humanity? Why are you failing to defend humanity?
Whether they deserve it or not, I won't dehumanize them; because I don't want to become someone who dehumanizes others.
I will certainly fight them, I will resist them, but I will not consider them anything but human.
Being a human is very, very different than having humanity. People need to realize these are humans ... who willingly betray their humanity.
They are literally and directly enemies of humanity, who need to be treated as such.
Right - fight them! Resist them! But do not let them push you into being inhuman yourself.
If even namecalling is too much for you, then you do not, in fact, understand how to defeat horrible people, let alone fascists destroying humanity.
I'm not talking about name-calling. Go hog wild with that, it seems fairly effective.
I'm talking about dehumanizing them. Deciding that any means that will end them is justified. Treating them like feral animals. Harvesting their organs for profit, like outhouseperilous suggested further up. That's what I'm pushing back on.
While the organ harvesting is a bit much, you must realize how utterly asinine and inept being against violence is when the target is openly vile people who choose to betray humanity.
Yes, we must always keep context in that these people are bad because they CHOOSE to betray humanity, but remembering context is wholly different than deciding to go against proven means for defeating this hateful, anti-humanity ideology...
Who's arguing against violence? I'm saying don't dehumanize them. Humans are quite capable of being monstrous and horrible all on their own.
Absolutely fight back against the fascists! My grandad did, and I think he's a fine example to follow. He didn't have to treat them as something other than people to do that, though. He just treated them as the enemy they were.
If treating someone as an enemy isn't dehumnaizing, I don't know what is. What you need to realize is, some people betray their title of human, and deserve zero humanity, because they have betrayed the very humnaity you want to preserve.
Yes, they're still humans: The specific animal capable of the worst behaviors imaginable. Some humans do not deserve humanity when they so willingly betray it.
Okay, that's the disconnect - you do not need to dehumanize someone to consider them an enemy. Police and militaries often do so, because it makes people easier to shoot; but it is not necessary. And the cognitive dissonance of dehumanizing their targets leads to a lot of the issues soldiers face later on. (And oh, hey - look who's become rife with fascists!)
Fascism absolutely needs stopped. It and the people supporting it are an existential threat. But the way that fascism starts out is by treating some people as less than human, as something other. And if you have to make an enemy a nonperson to beat them, then the groundwork is already laid for fascism to return with the next generation - after all, you've just shown dehumanizing people can get the results you need, right? Why not make a habit of it?
Right. No one should make a habbit of doing it. Though when a motherfucker casts away thsir own humanity, only a fool insists in trying to reestablish it before defeating them.
Addressed elsewhere downthread.
And if they dont want to be people in any of the ways that matter to me, calling them people eould be profoundly disrespectful. They aren't me abd dont have my values and treating them like they are/do would be disrespectful.
Nobodys arguing that. I just don't see why it gets brought up. Plenty of people arent human-dogs cats elephants octopi corvids cetaceans. If they're not lesser for not being human, i dont see why it's something i should be eating myself out about.
There's actually more to it than that. Plenty if dumb pieces of shit aren't fascists. In some older forms, that imo inevitably went extinct because of the nature of what it is, they didnt even need to be stupid.
Thanks, got it handled. Take your own advice and don't be super reactionary and tribalistic while reducing everything to shallow aesthetics. Try rigorous examination if the things you believe and elaboration, rather than reflexive gut reaction, or you really are not so different from them.