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How bad will it get before people start emigrating?
It's already started
It started years ago. Chinese and European institutions were recruiting Americans almost a decade ago while I was still attending scientific meetings. Most of us could see the writing on the wall about American science. I was too close to retiring for such a jump to make sense for me then. I'm SOOOO glad I'm out of the game now. And grateful that I have a comfortable income from my pensions and SS without tapping into my savings.
Cartoon “Brain drain” by Oliver Schoff.
Would if I could. My skills aren't in demand in other countries, and my health would be an issue for those with universal Healthcare. I'm stuck, and have made peace with the fact that I'll be a statistic of this administration. I'll do what I can to prevent others from suffering the same fate, but realistically, I have no avenue to save myself.
Fuck that, I'm not going to let a born-rich-bottom-boy and a fucking wannabe Dr. Evil kick me out of my country.
Why do you care so much about a country that supports a "born-rich-bottom-boy" to do whatever they want?
I've had the opportunity to live in many countries, and I can tell you they're much more pleasant than the US
Because I have a strong connection to the areas I've grown up in and I simply have moved too many times in my life. I have finally put down some sort of roots and started to build something to be proud of. I'm not leaving.
We already have. It's been cheaper for a while now to go abroad for undergraduate and graduate school. Source: Me. I did this for the golden visa and got tricked by stupid sexy science. I have met several like me in the last decade. It's been a long time coming.
People who emigrate in response to things getting bad are cowards ...
Why? What loyalty or obligation is owed to a country just because you were born to it? It's the country's job to make you want to be a citizen, not the citizen's to make the country act like it doesn't hate your guts and see you as a wallet to fleece.
Yeah I'm not killing myself because a minority of voters elected someone that's ruining my life. Get fucked pal
So I should kill myself because America broke the social contract and I'd rather leave than die or become imprisoned fighting to repair it? Fuck you, my man. Revolution isn't the only option when your government breaks the contract; is every immigrant a traitor?
Wow, you guys actually think you don't have any responsibility to fight fascism. No wonder it won so easily.
What are you talking about? People emigrating (after an enormous genocide) is how this country was made!
Again, I'm very confused on how that's relevant to what I'm saying
It's relevant because if we go by your logic, then the entire country of USA is made by and for cowards since all of them, except for the native Americans, are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Ergo, the United States is inherently cowardly.
That's really strange that you think people are purely determined by their parents.... Like, seriously, what?
But sure, founded by. A nation isn't determined purely by it's founders. That still hasn't explained how this is relevant to what I'm saying.
I don't think that. I'm just applying your logic to the reality of the United States being a nation of immigrants who aren't native to the land they inhabit. Therefore it is a nation built by cowards. People still migrate to the US today, btw. And they marry the descendants of the cowards so the cowardly traits will never die out there.
Or maybe, just maybe, people who migrate to another country are just looking for ways to live a free and happy life? Maybe those to move some place else have better opportunities somewhere else and they prefer to live in peace with their family rather than being potentially thrown in concentration camps or killed by their government. It is so easy to sit there and say that people who move away from an area are cowards. Just like it is easy for me to make the conclusion that all of US is cowardly because all of them (except the natives) either migrated there or descend from generation upon generation of migrants. You are correct in objecting to that conclusion and calling it strange because that is indeed a strange thing to conclude. Just like it is strange of you to conclude that those who move away from the US currently are cowards. It is strange and a downright foolish statement to make.
You applied a perversion of my logic.
I did not say all immigrants were cowards. I said "people who emigrate in response to things getting bad are cowards."
You not reading my sentence in full and instead splicing it to fit your image of me is a tad annoying.
Effectively, I'm saying those who flee at the start of when things get bad instead of trying to stop it are cowards. If you can make a difference, you should. That's my viewpoint in life.
"Going somewhere for a better life" is not what I'm against. "Refusing to attempt to stop the decay of your current space" is what I'm against. People like the leadership dems, who flop down in the face of a foe. That's cowardice.
It's an understandable thing to do. That won't stop me from thinking they're cowards.
Those who flee when things get bad are also going somewhere for a better life.
And my example of applying your logic still fits as many people who come to the US have fled countries that were going to shit.
Are you going to say that for example every Philippino who has moved away for a better life because the Philippines is pretty shite to live in if your aren't rich - are cowards?
You can think what I'm saying is annoying all you want, but you cannot just make a blanket statement for people who are leaving the US and calling them cowards without applying that logic to other people in other countries who have done the same. And I think most of us would get a bad taste in our mouths if we started saying that Philippinos are cowards for leaving their country instead of staying and fixing their country. It's not that simple. Especially not for those groups in society who are being persecuted.
I don't see how the blanket statement is an issue. "Bad taste in your mouth" isn't exactly a great argument for or against something.
Fascism is evil. People need to fight it.
I'm sure you will be in the front of the resistance and put action to your words.
so you think no one online ever does anything, huh? I'm already preparing. Voting isn't enough... Resistance is best when organized, and I'm advocating for my union to take steps to be ready as well as taking them myself. I'm not standing by idle. I campaigned in election season to help fight it there. And now that we lost the election, I'm taking other measures.
Maybe some of the people who move away from the US are also doing their part to help their country in ways you haven't thought of? They can still advocate for their values and beliefs even of they don't live in the country. You have a very limited scope on what people are doing and not doing in this situation. You might benefit from calming your ego a little bit and consider that your way isn't the only way to combat a facistic leader.
It's good that you try and do your part, I just dislike your superiority complex about it and how you blindly judge anyone who reacts differently than what you deem the right way to handle the situation.
The fact that you think your union has any standing anymore shows you aren’t actually prepared for what’s happening.
Unions were here before they were legal and they'll be here after. The fact that you think unions rely purely on legal power suggests that you don't actually understand unions.
It's a useful tool for finding like minded people to organize with either way. And by organize, I do not mean for just peaceful protesting.
Yeah, America told that coward Anne Frank to pull herself up by her bootstraps and sent the boat she took to the good ol US of A to seek asylum back to Germany.
I wonder what happened to that girl? Eh she probably got a hero's welcome, challenged Hitler in the Free Market of Ideas, and won the day. At least I think so, I'm not sure, she wrote a diary but my local GOP Senators were kind enough to ban the book for being woke; it's just not appropriate for people hiding in attics to call the people looking for them Nazis just because they happen to disagree on trivial matters like the value of a human life.
/sarcastic as Hell
...do you think I'm saying this shit as "oh yeah, you'll be fine if you fight back, nothing bad will happen"? Do you think I'm saying to only fight back with thoughts and prayers? There's never any magical victory.
Anne frank was a child. 16 years old. Not old enough for self determination in the united states(barring some exceptions).
Genocides happen when people don't stand up to stop them. Everyone needs to fight against encroaching evil, in ways small or big, to stand a chance to fight.
"Genocides happen when people don't stand up to stop them..."-so you're posting this from Gaza while you stand against the genocide going on there-right?
I don't live in gaza. My only care on that is wishing for the united states to stop giving weapons to Israel to enable it. I believe people have obligations to their own areas. And that all beyond that is courtesy, unless they're the cause of the damages.
But either way, one person can't stand up for every issue. I chose mine. I chose my focus.
Why do you think like 97% of America's population immigrated to America bruh?
No one said "Yeah I love loving where I am now, let me drop it all and move to an entirely new continent lol"
Erm, more than a few arrived in chains, entirely against their will.
Ah my bad, about 88%, with 9% from the slave trade.
I fail to see how those genocidal people have any bearing on my statement.
Congrats on the most stupid take my eyeballs saw today 👏
^ this person isn't worth anyone's time or effort. Ignore and/or block and don't fall into the trap of trying to use logic to change the mind of someone who didn't use logic to get there.
Bullshit. Would you have suggested Jews and Romani stay in Nazi Germany if they had the chance to leave?