577
ethnonationalism bad
(files.catbox.moe)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2024
577 points (92.0% liked)
Lefty Memes
4526 readers
1039 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Leftists only love failed independence movements. Jews worked and fought for centuries before succeeding in building an independent homeland. As soon as they succeeded, it became the "wrong" thing.
I'm not afraid to say:
Free Palestine
Free Tibet
Free First Nations
Free Kurdistan
How about when they started genociding it became the wrong thing?
Say that. Say "genocide" instead of "succeed" if you love facts so much.
If they hadn't immediately started a project of displacing the people who had been there the last 2,000 years then you might have a point. But no they went straight to Terrorism, and we cheered.
Israel was never a movement for freedom, from the start it was a far right enthnonationalist colonial project.
Not exactly. Zionism was a labor-communist movement with an emphasis on fairly purchasing land from absent landlords, communal ownership, multiculturalism, agriculture, and independence for the native peoples of the region.
I know it goes against the popular narrative these days, but the nice thing about history is that it never changes. I'm happy to share primary sources or mainstream, independent scholarship on any of these points if you have followup questions on any of these points.
For now, here is a poster from 1900 to illustrate the point:
I feel like we're talking about two very different things with the same name.
While that form of zionism may have existed at one point, it is completely irrelevant today, as the zionism seen in Israel is very much far right and enthnonationalist.
Yeah Zionism had a lot of different opinions on how and where to do it before the Holocaust gave the movement the political capital it needed to actually happen. Funny how often these "iT gOeS aGaiNsT the NaRraTivE" types actually just don't know or deliberately ignore the complete context.
As I said, I am happy to provide any information you would like. The idea that Israel only exists because of the Holocaust is a historical misnomer. It's true that some historians believe it accelerated the development, while others speculate that the huge decrease in world Jewish population inhibited the growth of the State.
The truth is that the forces of decolonization post-WW2 led to the creation of many newly independent states, including India and Pakistan, etc. The end of the British protectorate in Palestine-Eretz Israel (as it was called at the time) led to the international recognition of a state of Israel and a state of Palestine, with borders based on a roughly equal division of the Cisjordan region, based on the incorporation of the largest populations of the two groups.
Jewish leaders accepted the international resolution, while Arab leaders rejected it, and attacked the newly established state of Israel.
These events had as much if not more to do with the end of European colonialism than the Holocaust. It was much the same way that the British Raj was divided into roughly ethnic states of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
"Labor-Zionism" is reactionary and ethnonationalist, they perpetuated the Nakba were willing to work with the far right as long as they were Jewish (putting ethnic politics above workers unity). IMO they should be seen like how we see national Socialism and national Bolshevism.
sry friend, the free tibet part'll get you banned here
everyone knows, that tibet isn't a country, but actually belongs to glourios china, which is, even tho it has one of the highest billionair density in the world, a true socialist utopia... also uigurs are a western lie
Going against nation states and imperialism will never get you banned from this instance.
sry, mistook it for a ml community
is them getting banned for that here in the room with us?
🤡
I was banned for that just recently on ml
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/11702512
then you just meant Lemmy in general? Bc this isn't .ml or .world and they aren't all of Lemmy
sry, I didn't check the instance, thought this was a ml community
seems like a mutual misunderstanding then. sry for the harshness