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I've got a spicy take, but desperately want to get it off my chest
(sh.itjust.works)
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this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2024
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I mean... yeah, the episode isn't as focused on procedural detail, and I do live for legal process minutia, but I can fill in the blanks just fine and suspend disbelief.
I mean, the question being raised is whether Data has been operating as a person willingly joined Starfleet or as salvaged equipment. If Data had been roaming around on his own and then applied to join Starfleet I'd be more nitpicky, but he was found and turned on by Starfleet and he seems to have been in the system since, so I can see the question of how to categorize him coming up retroactively. Especially in retrospect, since we eventually get undeniable confirmation that AGI is very much possible within their normal gear.
I mean, for the record, by the time Voyager comes around we know that they have protocols to use holographic AIs to substitute in for key personnel, so if you can have a "EMH" slot in for an officer you can have a piece of salvaged machinery operate with a rank and then reassign it to a different role... unless that entity has personhood. It IS a sci-fi as hell concept, but a valid one in-universe.
Me, I would have very much enjoyed Noonyien Soong arguing whether he still owns Data and learn what is legal salvage in Starfleet territory but for the sake of 90s network TV I can see "Is this android truly a life form" being the approach to a Trek episode. And thematically... well, I can't get through the Goldberg and Stewart scene about slavery without tearing up. It isn't just how good they both are, it's the "oh, crap, they're saying the thing" element to it, too.
Of course that means Starfleet straight up condoned slavery later, as per Star Trek Picard season 1. I would gladly remove all of Picard from lore at this point, but nope, officially Starfleet had legal proceedings to determine that Soong androids are people and to remove their autonomy is akin to slavery and then went ahead and did it anyway.
Picard sucks and is the worst Star Trek thing ever, is what I'm trying to say. Yes, way worse than anything in Discovery. Including season three.
Voyager had it's own "Measure of a Man" episode a la the EMH in Season 7, episode 20 "Author, Author". A lot of the same themes were there. But what has bothered me for years is at the end of the episode, it's implied that there is a number of EMH units that have been "reading" the Doctor's holonovel, and building a resistance.
This was never explored in any future Star Trek, was it? It wasn't talked about in Picard or Lower Decks. And Picard had the whole AI plot line.
Hey, you want to hear a spicy take?
Discovery is the one piece of Trek that fixes their dumb AI nonsense.
By the time they are in the post-postapocalypse future they introduce at least one Soong android who is just... hanging out, being a guy. Not even a particularly nice guy. So at least there is that.
It really bothered me that they didn't even mention the doctor, what with seven of nine being there and the ai plotline. But after watching more of Picard, I'm glad they didn't and especially glad they mostly steered clear of ds9.
So as someone who never watched Picard, its a skip?
Oh, please skip it. I watched the first season and I wish I could erase that experience from memory.
Red Letter Media did some youtube videos on all the Picard seasons, you’re much better off just watching them talk about it than actually watching Picard itself. Season 3 is supposedly better, but still not great.
Picard is destroying, it doesn't add. It should've never been made.
Picard was fumbled hard overall.
They had some concepts that could've been deeply interesting, such as [SPOILERS] a dead Borg Cube in Romulan space, being studied by the Romulans, and looking for Bruce Maddox, the scientist who wanted to study Data in Measure of a Man (S1), Q dying and wanting to engage with Picard before he goes (S2), but they did a really bad job.
Season 3 is a lot better. A lot of the sound and cinematography is great, it feels more like a Star Trek film than a TV show in terms of how it's presented. That in itself isn't a good thing or a bad thing, but I personally liked it.
It's a bit fan-servicey - there were times when I liked that, but also times I rolled my eyes. I'd say Season 3 is worth watching, and you'll either like it or you won't. Thankfully, the show pretty much resets itself for season 3, and you don't really need any info from Seasons 1/2 going into it.
In S3 Picard and Bev Crusher at one point sit down to ponder whether to torture or execute a prisoner and decide to go for it.
Yeah, no. It's not AS bad... but it's bad.
Season 2 can absolutely be ignored entirely going into season 3, which is good because season 2 is complete garbage. And that annoys the hell out of me because it's the one with Q, Guinan, and even a brief appearance of Wesley.
I watched, and really enjoyed Season 1, even with its flaws. I started season 2, and turned it off after I think an episode. I don't know if they changed writers or what, but something about it was just too stupid. If I remember correctly, they brought back some person that died, or someone did something unforgivable in season 1 and then they're back on the squad for... reasons? I dunno, it was so jarringly stupid I stopped watching a show based entirely on my favorite Star Trek captain. If your show, about Picard, turns off hardcore TNG fans... then, what are you even doing?
Though I've heard that season 3 is good multiple times now, so perhaps I'll try to reengage
You should watch season 3. The only things to know about season 2 is that they wrote off all but 1 of the new characters, and that it's entirely unimportant for season 3.
yeah, each season is pretty much self-contained, but it helps to have watched the previous ones the new characters so you can appreciate their story arcs.
True. Although half the new characters were scrapped, or had their storylines ignored.
Picard's two Romulan... maids? Estate managers? went nowhere and disappeared
Space Legolas went nowhere and disappeared
Soji went nowhere and disappeared
Raffi is there still, but her entire story arc got scrapped I believe? They were going for a "I'm a recovering addict and I want to reconnect with my son and his pregnant spouse", and then it just completely disappeared as a plot line.
Seven is there, but I think you can go into S3 and just think "oh, Picard and Seven know eachother. I guess that makes sense actually."
It certainly helps to have seen the previous seasons, you're right. I'm pretty sure they reference that Picard is technically an android once, which would be a wtf moment if you've not seen season 1.
The final season of Picard is terrific. The others are not so good. But you kind of have to watch the others to understand some of the things in the final season.
It's mostly just a TNG reunion though.
If the last season of Picard is terrific, then Star Trek Nemesis is peak cinema.
...or we just don't share an opinion about a TV show.