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Don’t Fall for the Third-Party Trick
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this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024
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I agree entirely, in regards to politics in 1850's Germany with its diverse multiparty political ecosystem.
As for current American politics, where we are deeply entrenched in a societal tug-of-war in an ostensible two-party system, where third parties can swing policy in a largely undemocratic direction by spoiling the vote in close elections, I disagree completely. Third parties serve no purpose in a two-party representative democracy.
If we can break the two party political duopoly, then I will never complain about another fringe party voter ever again. Until then, you better fucking vote for the lesser evil, because letting the greater evil win, as we learned in 2017-2020, is really fucking bad.
If anything, letting Democrats win the next few major elections could spell doom for the Republican party as a whole, and give us a chance to introduce some actual competition to the Democratic party.
I wish that I could snap my fingers and have it fixed today, but that's not how societies work. Accelerationism always requires violence, and violence isn't how you should uphold democracy, unless you are defending its pillars against a direct threat. A two-party duopoly is something we the people need to defeat.
That means we need to abolish the electoral college, introduce universal mail-in voting, defeat all right-wing disenfranchisement efforts, and introduce ranked-choice voting to all elections. These are radical changes that will take a lot of work to accomplish, and that will face a lot of opposition.
Under Democrat leadership, these things are possible. Under Republican leadership, we'll be lucky if we still have elections.
Your solution to defeating the duopoly is continuing giving them power and participating in it?
It's not a way to defeat the duopoly, it's a way to survive under it.
Voting 3rd party is also not a way to defeat the duopoly.
Would you like your vote to matter after November?
Then yes, I'm pushing the duopoly this time around.
So if they can't vote for their views now, and we keep pushing the duopoly, when do we get democracy?
That’s the neat part… you don’t.
When you start doing things that actually work.
Look up the Moral Majority and Jerry Falwell. They would show up at every local GOP organizing event with enough voters to make sure their candidates for jobs like mayor, sheriff, and county clerk got the nod.
Gotcha, I'll keep organizing outside the useless electoral system.
That's a neat way to say "being too lazy to actually make a difference, but I don't want to feel bad about it".
What laws have you gotten passed?
Why would passing laws be my concern? The answer is 0.
Cryophilia said it better than I could, so I'll repeat their comment.
I'll just add that if you aren't interested in passing laws you should vote for Harris if only to annoy the Right.
I don't believe the way forward is by passing laws in a system that cannot be reformed into a good one, so it doesn't make sense to judge my praxis by passing laws within said system.
I think this right here illustrates your political views perfectly, "owning the chuds" is more important than actually working towards progress.
I'm sure your outside organizing will be much easier under the "let's arrest or deport everyone that does agree with us, burn all the books with ideas we don't agree with, and you'll never have to vote again" candidate.
Name one piece of actual progress you've made. One would be nice.
You probably love to rail at Obamacare and point out that it was originally created by Mitt Romney.
Maybe the ACA wasn't perfect, but 40 million people have some health insurance who wouldn't have had it without Obama and the Dems.
What have you done that's helped anyone?
What on Earth is this strawman tangent? Touch grass.
It's a simple question.
Either your way of doing things has produced results, or it hasn't.
Talk all you want about 'strawman' and I'll point to 40 million people with some kind of health care.
You're still attacking a strawman, lmao. Again, touch grass.
Let's turn it around.
Explain why me asking you to produce actual results is a 'strawman.'
You keep saying it, so you must have an idea of what it means.
I have never railed at Obamacare, nor do I point out that it was created by Romney. You spent the next several comments working off of that same false assumption.
No, I asked you to provide some actual results you've produced.
I cited the ACA as an example of something that has produced results.
You still haven't shown anything like actual progress.
That's the thing, they never do. They have been pushing the lesser evil splitting the vote bullshit for over 150 years. The only people that benefits is the wealthy
Were the party system changes before then more due to
a major party crushing the other major party, and then splitting, or
a minor party growing and eventually replacing one of the two major parties?
Bonus points if anyone has a source on this.
October Surprise comes to mind.
It's not like your vote matters now. Money has all the power in this country, voters have none. When 1 billionaire has more political influence than entire states you have no power. You've surrendered your power to the donor class.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/opinion/politicians-voters.html nyt. "Despite extensive public outreach...11%..." The NEW YORK TIMES, of all publications!
This is the epitome of why Democrats hate Trump. He says the quiet things out loud. He has said 'I dont care about you. I just want your vote.'
This article confirms this, the Princeton study from 2012 confirms this. Several sources have confirmed politicians don't care about us, only the monied class
Who do you think has a better chance of fixing that? Putin's orange Fleshlight? The chick he had dinner with? Brainworm? Some other rando that gets less than 1% of the vote?
I hear you...it's a problem...
Throwing your vote away this cycle ensures that your vote will never matter again.
The vote thrown away is the vote that's cast out of fear. The dnc's entire platform for the last few decades has been. We are not the other guy. You were casting a vote in opposition to the other guy, not in favor of policy or legislation, but not the other guy, that's a protest vote
No...I'm voting for policy this time around. If I get the state exception for state taxes I get a point and a half back.
Trump's tariffs should fucking terrify everyone...think shit is expensive now, wait until that goes through.
What's the 3rd parties offering that has a remote chance of dealing with either of those problems?
What policy, the one that was hastily copy/pasted from Biden's website?
Throw your vote away...wipe Palestine off the map...increase prices by 20% across the board...make sure women's healthcare is never again a choice in this nation.
I hope your high horse can carry you over the flaming wreck that'll be the USA when your boy or girl doesn't get 1% but manages to swing the vote in those battleground states.
I don't know what you're going on about. There's nearly no Palestine remaining to begin with. There's very few remaining standing structures left in Gaza. The unlimited amounts of money and weapons Biden/Harris has provided has allow Netanyahu to 'finish the job.' And if he's not able to finish the job by January, Harris is already committed more money and weapons to him to allow him to finish it.
I'm not concerned about that possible fictitious 20% that may happen when we're living right now with stagnant wages, unaffordable housing, no access to healthcare or education. While they have you terrified of things that might happen, you're actively ignoring what's going on right now, but that's the entire intent of distracting you from the now.
If you haven't been paying attention, women's health care lost their rights to reproductive care during a Biden administration. They fucked around for 50 years and found out. But abortion being a states rights issue is what Biden had advocated his entire Congressional career.
If your party was so concerned, they should have made an effort to earn my vote. But even if they had tried, genocide is the red line for a majority of people with any type of conscious or morals.
Cool story bro...enjoy the end of Democracy.
End of democracy while you are demanding everyone support a candidate that's never won an election, primary, or electoral vote, that was appointed with no contest?
Cool story bro
Ahh...the Trumpster fire reveals it's self.
It's only a matter of time before the weird conservative talking points start popping out in these debates.
Nice try. How does dog taste btw?
Give me a reasonable alternative and I'll take it.
You don't name a candidate to vote for, just say we shouldn't participate.
Who do you think scares Donnie more, Harris or your non-participation?
This will never happen. The replacement party will be fascist. The Republican Party's fascism doesn't exist because of "brainwashing" or "conmen," it exists because fascism rises from decaying Capitalism. If you don't get rid of the Capitalism, the conditions for fascism remain.
The Democrats will never work against their donors. This will never happen.
Especially when their donors are the same donors to the GOP
Absolutely.
That part. They know where we're going, the only difference as far as I can see is some prefer it slower, to keep from spooking the populace, and others are willing to slaughter any part of the populace that resist.
One day, the lambs will stop screaming.