The thing that is bothering me right now is seeing “cashless” establishments. Frankly, it’s kind of discriminatory, and I do not know how you can justify denying people goods and services if they are carrying the currency of the country they live in. That does not sit right with me.
San Francisco made it illegal for public facing businesses to be cashless. They deem it discriminatory towards people who aren't able to get credit cards.
Is it even legal to be cashless? What happened to “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"?
What happened to “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"?
The key word is debts. When you want to buy something in a store, you owe money if you want it, but you have not incurred a debt. You can just not buy it. You and the seller start at an even place, trade goods/services for money, and end even. If you have a debt, you're starting the transaction at a negative place and are trying to get back to even.
If one were to consume the product before getting to the register, is it then considered a debt? Asking for a friend that is going to get some beer.
No, that's technically stealing. It would be a debt if they agreed in advance to give you an interest-free loan of the beer while in the store.
You're not forced to use smartphones. I happen to live in China, and there are people without them.
You can buy tickets at the counter or vending machines, you can text or call instead of sending wechat messages, you can pay bills by card or direct debit, and supermarkets all accept cards (Chinese ones, that is) or cash.
People use wechat or alipay out of convenience. Just like people in the West use whatsapp, signal, fb messenger, telegram or whatever else there is. And some of those are testing payment service integrations (whatsapp pay for example is live in India since a few months ago).
You don't like it - don't use it. Nobody will force you. But if it takes me 7 seconds on my phone to finish a task vs. 2h in person, guess which one I'm choosing.
Edit: Typo
Yea I also lived in China for 3 years while doing my masters and OP clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. Everywhere takes cards and cash in addition to the digital payments. And no service I used was digital only.
Edit: The only requirement I encountered was a local phone number. Not a smartphone.
My kid's school just implemented an app-based pickup process this year.
You have to download an app and register your phone and email and child, then when you get in the line to pickup your child you have to press a button in the app.
I literally cannot retrieve my child from school without a smartphone.
I literally cannot retrieve my child from school without a smartphone.
I'm positive there is a backup method; did you ask about one, or did you simply install the app?
I would not be so positive. Schools aren’t well known for thinking policies through completely. Good chance this person lives in an area that has high enough income that they would just tell poor people to not be poor and get the app.
There are reasons besides "being poor" for not have smart phone access at pickup time. I assure you the answer won't be "I guess this kid is spending the night here".
There is a backup method.
Edit: minor rewording for clarity.
Obviously they will figure out how to get a kid to their parents are not going to kidnap a child. I’m also aware that there are reasons other than being poor to not have a cellphone. Again, you are thinking logically and not like a school administration. It is my experience that school administrators can be quite illogical. If you don’t want to use a phone, you are 100% going to end up fighting with school staff. They’re not going to like exceptions to their processes for any reason. They will fight you to get you to conform. It’s a school after all.
Something happened in QC a few weeks ago like this. A IIRC 60yo person who donated blood all his life, went to a donor center, there was a lot of empty seats so he wanted to do like he has done for 40 years, take a seat and give blood, but no, nurses told him he has to register and make an appointment on the application. So he left.
I mean, you already do. Everything is digital, and most stuff is centralised anyhow (payment is controlled by a duopoly, Visa and Mastercard, and you gotta pay almost everything with them)
Yes and no. I can still pay with cash and live a normal live without owning a smartphone. I can still buy paper train tickets etc.
I hate the future and I hate "progress".
Cool, so get off the internet and quit annoying the rest of us.
I'm the opposite; coming from a more digital society my worry isn't that we'll all use smartphones, but that people don't have access to digital initiatives and will be left behind. I also am concerned with how some things don't have more regulatory oversight.
In short, smartphones good, unregulated big tech, bad. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The real issue is the concentration of power. WeChat is the gatekeeper and moderator of basically everything in China. They decide what apps and services are allowed to be successful. If they see something doing well, they have the data and the control to make a copy of it and replace the original with it. Sort of like Amazon does in the retail space.
I honestly think the US is at that point. I need a phone to clock in, you can't find price checkers anymore, physically paying bills just doesn't happen anymore, checks are becoming obsolete. Stores are downsizing in favor of online markets, banks are closing lobbies in favor of digital. We love in a digital world and while it's technically possible without it still, very difficult to do so.
Take it from the lens of the average Chinese person, and they will tell you it's awesome, simple and convenient. Pros and cons basically.
You are talking to people who some refuse to download Facebook, Instagram, tiktok, and some being degoogled and running GrapheneOS. And some who opt for self hosting over trusting companies with cloud.
When those people don't even see eye to eye with the average person from their country I sure don't think they are going to care about people overseas not caring about privacy. Especially if they are not pro government surveillance to begin with, and some even hating their government and being suspicious of them.
I was in China two months ago. While WeChat and AliPay are ubiquitous, it's not true that China is cashless. You can still use cash pretty much everywhere, but expect vendors to have to rummage for a bag of cash behind the counter then panic as they don't remember how to count money.
But honestly, it's not that different from Europe and North America. When I'm in, say, Canada or France, I'm using a Visa credit card through Google Wallet for absolutely everything. Not sure I trust Google and Visa any more than WeChat.
Try and access your US tax records online without a contract cell phone and see how far you get.
My go to answer is to say that I don't have a mobile phone. Actually, I have one, but it's only for personal contacts, not for institutions. When a clerk asks me for my phone number, I answer: sure, give me your phone number, I'll text you my contact.
Same for administrations and my employer: my boss has my phone numbers but not HR in my company.
The only institution that has my phone number is my bank, and i'm seriously considering using an alternate authentication method for 2FA at my bank.
If enough of us do that, it won't happen.
Maybe we should step away from China for a moment given their government has a very strong motivation to keep tabs on its citizens and the fact their very mention is biasing the conversation and look at another country which has a strong smartphone presence and I often see posted on here as an example of privacy - Norway
We're effectively cashless (I don't think I've even handled cash since they swapped the banknotes over) and I think most people do their banking from bills to petty transfers on their phone. You can't get a physical bus card, because that's on your phone, or the ticket is attached to your bank card. We don't have an all encompassing WeChat or even like, any homegrown social media. I'm not exactly sure which aspect of WeChat you're honing in on so I can't say Norway does that too, but we do an awful lot via our phones. I do have some gripes about how some things are set up, but they're complaints that aren't actually exclusive to this specific system.
Elon is working on replicating it now with “X”. He’s already said he wanted something like that for the US
I only use cash at the pot store.
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