this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2026
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[–] panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 100 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I wonder if Trump will try his clearly working strategy of escalating things and yelling threats.

Maybe he’ll say some other country is offering to open the strait of hormuz for cheaper and Iran will get scared and cave.

[–] flandish@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

after all: his strategy seems to be making a lot of people a lot of money. while ruining the lives of us american working class folk, and bombing schools full of middle eastern children.

ain’t no war but class war, indeed. they know we’re “used to” gas prices like this, they’ll never go down again.

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[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 61 points 1 week ago

Iran was now seeking the release of the entire $24 billion in frozen Iranian assets upfront

When you break your word twice a day, people will eventually figure out that your promises mean nothing.

[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 52 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Well diarrhea donny just raised the stakes again telling the Iranian Islamic Republic (in front of the rest of the world) that he is considering killing them all

Unlike the kiddy diddler, those people are hardened fanatics and find honour in death... shit is just going to be worse and worse

Thank you Muricans... your dumbassery will be painful (if not deadly) for the entire world and we only have you to thank for it

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 88 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Unlike the kiddy diddler, those people are hardened fanatics and find honour in death

Not crucial to your point but this sort of orientalism too often goes unchallenged. They're not "hardened fanatics who find honor in death" (at least not any more than any other culture that values martyrdom, which is most of them); everything Iran has done so far can be explained through the cold hard math of geopolitics.

[–] lettruthout@lemmy.world 36 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Agreed, what are US Marines but cold hard fanatics that find honor in death?

[–] ATPA9@feddit.org 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The US has cold soft fanatics that find honor in death (as long as some one else is doing all the fighting and dying)

[–] DevDave@piefed.social 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That's why the US military is mostly people without better prospects or any prospects. Most of the people I served with came from two core demographics: trapped without hope of escape in the ghetto or trapped without hope of escape from rural bumble fuck. The somewhat literal fear of going back to where you came from vs obliterating a bunch of "bad people" is an easy math problem.

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[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (3 children)

everything Iran has done so far can be explained through the cold hard math of geopolitics.

In the current war, yes absolutely. Iran has been the most logical and reasonable party to this war.

But you seem to be missing my point. In Iran, thousands have been killed and their stance does not seem to change. In the USA, gas has gone up and that has done more to sway Americans against trump than the knowledge their government is actively killing thousands around the world, including women and children, without a second thought.

If push comes to shove, I would bet my bottom dollar Iran gov will hold until the end. The USA on the other hand, won't survive the AI bubble bursting.

This was ALL visible and demonstrated recently in the disaster that was the invasion of Iraq

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In Iran, thousands have been killed and their stance does not seem to change. In the USA, gas has gone up and that has done more to sway Americans against trump than the knowledge their government is actively killing thousands around the world, including women and children, without a second thought.

So the answer here is twofold: First, that's not being hardened fanatics; that's a difference in popular will. America has very little popular will to prosecute this war (because it's stupid and unnecessary and Trump didn't even try to sell the American public on it), so even relatively minor setbacks or consequences produce outsized popular resentment. It's also important to note here that Americans don't meaningfully care about the humanitarian impact of their military's escapades, so "done more to sway Americans against trump than the knowledge their government is actively killing thousands around the world" isn't exactly a high bar. Meanwhile, though we can't know for sure because not much information is coming out of Iran these days, Iran presumably has a lot of popular will to prosecute the war because America and Israel are bombing their schools and hospitals. Would you want your country (presumably America) to surrender if, say, Russia started bombing your country? As long as you have a meaningful avenue of resistance, you'd want to do that until you return the favor to them twice over. That's exactly what the British thought, so much so that even after losing an order of magnitude more people out of a smaller population in less time than Iran they not only didn't surrender, they beat back the Germans and went on to fight them in three continents, bankrupting their country, losing their empire in and enduring harsh wartime rationing in the process. As history has repeatedly shown, terror bombing doesn't work. That's not a trait of hardened fanatics; that's just being human.

And of course second, even if the Iranian public wanted to surrender, that doesn't matter much (unless shit really hits the fan), because the people who would actually make the decision to surrender aren't the public; they're the ruling class, who are in a better position to weather the storm than the average Iranian. They're also likely to very much not want to surrender because it's their corrupt rule at stake.

The Oriental fanatic to whom life is cheap contrasted with the enlightened and/or decadent white man is a an age-old trope, but put in context it's not one with a lot of explanatory power.

[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

thanks for the detailed explanation

[–] 3abas@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (8 children)

In Iran, thousands have been killed and their stance does not seem to change

You know how Americans came together and supported GWB to invade Iraq to get revenge for 911?

It's the same thing. The American terrorist attacks on Iran made them come together and vowed revenge, except they are actually targeting the terrorists that attacked them not another nation.

I would bet my bottom Iran gov will hold until the end.

Well, they've thoroughly crushed their attacker and humiliated them, and they've successfully decolonized most of the region (US bases are closing and they're not returning). Why wouldn't they hold?

This was ALL visible and demonstrated recently in the disaster that was the invasion of Iraq

Uhhh... which part was visible and demonstrated? Iraq now has a US friendly government, it was a complete success. ISIS taking over was the disaster in Iraq, not the invasion itself. The US captured Saddam, put him through a sham trial and he was hung in a dark shed, stole the oil, destroyed the nation, and slaughtered millions of Iraqis.

They wanted to repeat that.

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[–] Flower@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Iran, or Persia, is many times older than the USA. They figure this too shall pass.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 3 points 1 week ago

On the topic of orientalism that too often goes unchallenged, I'm sorry but no. Iranian civilization might be very old (though the same goes for Greece, India, China and the broader Middle East so it's not like Iran is unique here) but every individual Iranian gets a few dozen years on this Earth and it'd really suck all the same if those were to prematurely end because of an Israeli bomb. American-Israeli terror bombing isn't working in Iran not because of some quality inherent to Iranian civilization but because terror bombing doesn't work. Never worked, probably never will. See my response to Jhex for what I mean, but long story short you wouldn't be any more inclined to surrender than the Iranians are if America/Russia/insert relevant boogieman blew up the school your child/little sibling/whatever goes to.

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[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.social 11 points 1 week ago (8 children)

How is that not a war crime in itself?

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I'm tired of winning boss.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

If the UN was actually dedicated to peace keeping they'd have arrested his ass for that shit.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The UN is just a forum that allows countries to air their grievances and talk out issues. It's there to hopefully stop wars before they start. It's not the world police

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[–] DjangoFett@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

I am not my government, nor have i ever felt anything like "patriotism" at any point outside the Olympics, and that's always as fleeting as whichever event I am watching.

Much as Iranians aren't their government, Chinese aren't theirs, etc etc. Despots gonna despot.

And if you think he actually got voted in this most recent time then I've got some bridges for sale in Brooklyn for a great price if you're interested.

ETA: Hard-line religious repressive governments and the CCCP genociding Uyghrs(sp) are what I'm referring to, nothing more.

Also I'm dumb

[–] Molvorin@feddit.dk 20 points 1 week ago (7 children)

That's not how a democracy works. And if you argue against it, then it's not a democracy any more

In the end, I don't think the rest of the world believes that this is all down to one person called Trump any more. This is down to the whole population and will require many generations of intentional cultural change to reverse.

The USA is lost to most of its allies, not because of Trump alone but because things there can unpredictably change very dramatically every 4 years

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[–] Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Oh, he got voted in by enough people to make this rapist, childfucking, insurrectionist garbage human president the second time. There is no functioning mechanism to prevent such things or to reverse course when things are obviously fucked, and that is the fault of every american alive, regardless of patriotism. It's not limited to a single generation either - this shit has been going down since at least Nixon, who got away scot free, and Reagan, who also didn't suffer any consequences for the Contra affair.

Every American alive - minus Gen Z / Alpha at the moment, but i am sure they will carry the torch on - is part of a system that has been running amok for more than half a century, and was neither willing to consistently vote for representants that respect the rule of law nor demand that the rules are changed in a way to prevent a fascist takeover.

It's just like with genocide - if you don't speak out against it, you support it.

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Much as Iranians aren't their government, Chinese aren't theirs, etc etc. Despots gonna despot.

People on Lemmy need to actually internalize this fact^

Thank you for thinking that way and saying it "out loud".

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[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 36 points 1 week ago (3 children)

This all sucks. We're in the same situation as Russia. The strongman in charge can't afford to admit defeat, and he doesn't care about the cost, so there's no end in sight. Something needs to happen to end this...

[–] HeyJoe@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I keep crossing my fingers with old age, but it seems like evil people live the longest...

[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

As long as people keep not standing up to them, they seem to.

[–] Pollo_Jack@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Republicans could end this any minute with majority in all three branches. They support the coverups, the bribes, the war, the reckless loss of lives, the reckless loss of American lives, and the pedophilia.

Yet, if you say the USA would be better off if all republican representatives, the ones responsible for this mess, disappeared today the USA would be in a better place. People will call you a fascist. It is a simple truth, one that many can't or won't accept.

[–] impairedimperator@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 week ago

the ones responsible for this mess

Given a public and fair trial, these words are what makes it not fascist.

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[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

Will no one rid us of this turbulent president?

[–] PattyMcB@lemmy.world 34 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yep... it's dumb to negotiate and try to play hardball if you don't have the upper hand.

Fart of the Deal indeed

[–] Insekticus@aussie.zone 24 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Dump has no cards and hasn't said "Thank You" once. Sad!

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 31 points 1 week ago

Just a reminder that we had an agreement with Iran before all of this, and by all accounts, it was working and Iran was adhering to it.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago

Iran and the US had earlier agreed on a memorandum setting out a pathway towards a permanent settlement. The understanding included demands for the lifting of US oil sanctions, removal of the US naval blockade on Iranian ports, the unfreezing of Iranian assets abroad and an end to fighting on all fronts, including Lebanon. The agreement later unravelled, with both sides accusing each other of violating its terms.

Mohebi said Iran was now seeking the release of the entire $24 billion in frozen Iranian assets upfront, rather than receiving the funds in stages before and during negotiations.

"The issue of Yemen was not on the agenda of the previous agreement. We are now demanding that the lifting of the blockade on Yemen be included in the agreement," he said.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The issue of Yemen was not on the agenda of the previous agreement. We are now demanding that the lifting of the blockade on Yemen be included in the agreement," he said.

There's absolutely no way we can outblockade the Houthis...

They live and operate in cave networks that our best bombs can't get to, and we wasted them already anyways...

They just sit in there making their own drones from raw materials, the only component they need is a gps unit. When their original leader was found, the only way to get him out was fill his tunnel with gas and set it on fire. Every last member is equally willing to die today or live 60 more years in a cave and then die the same way.

Mohebi rejected the suggestion that the Houthis were acting on instructions from Tehran. He said the Houthis "makes its own decisions and does not need to coordinate with us for anything in the world".

That's also bullshit, Iran funds and controls multiple groups like the Houthis.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 5 points 1 week ago

There's absolutely no way we can outblockade the Houthis...

They're talking about the blockade of Yemen, which is to say the crime against humanity being committed by Saudi Arabia with Western support for over a decade. Given that the Houthis didn't starve tens of thousands of children to death or push almost 20 million people (almost two thirds of the whole damn country) into famine I'd say they have been thoroughly outblockaded.

That's also bullshit, Iran funds and controls multiple groups like the Houthis.

Iran funds them, but doesn't control them. They're close allies because they have the same enemies, no mutually exclusive ambitions and similar (but very much not the same) sets of beliefs. Famously Hamas didn't consult Iran when they launched October 7th.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 16 points 1 week ago

the price was raised by TRUMP, his insistence that the conflict continue as long as epstein files isnt on peoples search results, or airwaves.

[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 week ago

Iran: I have changed the terms of the deal, pray I don't change them even more.

[–] SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The blockade of the Persian Gulf does not exist anymore. A carrier was hit by a missile and they pulled back 500km. They should just leave, it is only showing more and more weakness. The only thing the GOP knows is doubling/tripling/quadrupling down on being wrong. They usually can buy their way out or litigate until the other party runs out of money and gives up, but the military is powered by people and they don't understand people.

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[–] Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So it's going to keep being a war then until the military follows through on the threat?

[–] KeithD@lemmy.nz 3 points 1 week ago

And then for a while after that too.

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