this post was submitted on 09 May 2026
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UK Politics

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25
A Reform government is not inevitable (democracyforsale.substack.com)
submitted 5 days ago by okwithmydecay@leminal.space to c/uk_politics@feddit.uk
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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Labour are been utterly ridiculous at the moment, reform are not inevitable, labour's handling of the situation has pushed people towards reform.

Starmer keeps dancing to Nigel Farage's tune, of course he's losing. Starmer is constrained by reality, Farage can say whatever the hell he wants regardless of how completely impractical it is. Why are Labour's strategists so stupid that they can't see that?

As soon as Labour got into power they started going on about small boats and the "immigration crisis" rather than pointing to all the benefits of immigration. The racists are always going to vote for reform but there's plenty of reform voters who are just misinformed, so why not attempt to educate them and demonstrate that just because Nigel says so, doesn't necessarily mean it's true. But noooo, apparently it's much better to just pander to the right wing end of the party, even though that's literally never worked. Larry the Cat could take over from Labour strategists and the quality of policies would go comparatively sky high.

[–] makingrain@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

People have voted on immigration as a priority for decades and have been ignored. It's no surprise that this is happening with Reform rush.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 3 days ago (2 children)

The problem is that policy doesn't work. The economy is built on the assumption that there will always be low wage workers around to do the jobs British nationals won't do.

Every western economy has always used workers from poorer economies as the base workforce. If reform implement their ill-thoughtout draconian immigration policies they just won't come here. Which of course will cause a crisis that reform will predictably try and solve by forcing prisoners and anyone on benefits to do the work, and just like that you have debtors prison again.

[–] makingrain@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I didn't mention any policy.

Western economies didn't always rely on foreigner workers from "poor counties", you've made a huge assumption. Always? Laughable.

However, that's not true. We brain drain poorer countries for their doctors and nurses, whilst our graduates struggle to find work. We import foreigners to work in care homes, which is a private industry but the scale is mad different to how it used to be. Do you have any examples?

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 2 points 3 days ago

Yeah exactly. We don't pay our NHS workers enough money that isn't a societal failing that is a political decision Reform won't help with that, they will privatise the NHS and make the situation 100 million times worse do not vote for them unless you are in favour of societal collapse.

[–] yes_this_time@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

"Using workers from poorer countries as their workforce" Yikes. Doesn't sound too great.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 1 points 2 days ago

It's the world you live in. Who do you think picks the crops?

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

All Starmer has to do is commit public sudoku

[–] waz@feddit.uk 0 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Seppuku?

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 4 points 3 days ago

Of course not that's cultural appropriation

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

If it keeps him out of office I'm fine with sudoku.

[–] waz@feddit.uk 2 points 3 days ago

I wondered if it was a new way to commit sideways

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Proportional representation.

[–] br3d@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

PR is Labour's opportunity to leave a truly meaningful legacy. But I'm sure they'll continue to be utterly hubristic, refuse to change anything on the off-chance the entire population suddenly changes their minds, and get wiped out at the next General while saddling us with Life President Farage

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I wonder whether Starmer stands to personally gain from paving the way for the Owners’ preferred viceroy. Perhaps a few months after conceding defeat and solemnly shaking Farage’s hand, he’ll be sitting on the boards of several funds, attending the meetings remotely from the deck of his new superyacht.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I honestly think he's too boring an individual to be engaged in some kind of secret background dealing.

I think the real reason is he's just incredibly stubborn and doesn't have good political instincts. I'm sure he'll blame Peter Mandelson for all of this (sure he lied, but there was so much we already knew), even though the whole thing was 100% his fault. He just doesn't seem to have the ability to accept responsibility for his own stupid decisions.

[–] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 days ago

Mandelson got him his job. Starmer's not obtuse enough to have failed to realise that.

[–] Meron35@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Broke: Brits are dumb for voting for Brexit in 2016

Woke: Brits are dumb are voting against Alternative Vote in 2011

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Not to be that guy but alternative vote isn't proportional representation. The arguement for voting against it was that if we go for alternative vote, they will use that as an excuse to never implement proper proportional representation.

I do not know how sound of the decision that was, but that was the general feeling at the time. But that memory seems to have been lost and the narrative now seems to be that people were stupid for voting against it. It really wasn't that simple.

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 1 points 3 days ago

It would have been a step in the right direction. If nothing else, it would have shown we could change the voting scheme without the world falling apart.

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Both were true, although AV is not ideal.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 3 days ago (2 children)

AV was an attempt to plaster over a major problem, and it wouldn't have solved anything.

[–] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Neither will any form of PR. All electoral systems have antidemocratic corner cases and all can be gamed. Some are less bad than FPTP but none are a panacea, and countries that have used such systems don't appear to have much better governance than other countries with comparable weath and levels of development.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 2 points 3 days ago

Well it would be a damn sight better than the current system we've got. Literally anything would be a damn sight better than the current system we've got.

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

In reality, we don't know that although I do agree in principle.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Well we kind of do actually.

Alternative vote is just what they called it but it was going to be single transferable vote.

So let's run a mock election, You've got the same old parties that we've currently got, Greens, Labour, Lib Dem (for some reason), Conservatives, Reform

So let's say I vote as follows;
1 Greens.
2 Labour.
3 Lib Dems.

I don't vote for the conservatives or reform.

Let's say the greens get knocked out, so my vote transfers to labour. The Lib Dems also get knocked out so my vote stays with labour, on the other side the conservative votes get knocked out and they go to reform. So it's now Reform vs Labour - regardless of who wins it's still going to be one party that was voted for by a minority of the population in power and controlling the lives of a bunch of people who didn't vote for them, not just people that would have preferred to have someone else, people who explicitly did not vote for them. The system is still inherently unfair.

Ultimately it's still going to be a left-wing party or a right-wing party in charge, and those people are going to completely ignore the desires and interests of the other group. Just as they do now.

The only system that guarantees cooperation and mutual compromise is Proportional Representation. The extremist attitude of my way or the highway will just not work under that system. Sure we will get some reform idiots in power, but they are in power right now anyway and at least under proportional representation if they're not willing to compromise and work with other people (which they won't), they won't be able to do anything.

[–] tenebrisnox@feddit.uk 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Sooner we get Immortan Joe and his cultists elected and the UK collapses into a wasteland of shortages, fighting and driving round in armoured vehicles, the better.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yeah but on the downside my bins won't get collected, the roads will still be full of potholes, and there won't be any buses at all.

At least the Nazis knew how to organise and had a snazzy dress sense. These Poundland fascists all have beer guts.

[–] tenebrisnox@feddit.uk 2 points 3 days ago

my bins won't get collected, the roads will still be full of potholes, and there won't be any buses at all

Come to Kent where Reform have been pretending to run for over a year now. It's like that already and we get the benefit of them selling off all the publically-owned stuff that even the Tories didn't dare.