UK Politics
General Discussion for politics in the UK.
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Proportional representation.
PR is Labour's opportunity to leave a truly meaningful legacy. But I'm sure they'll continue to be utterly hubristic, refuse to change anything on the off-chance the entire population suddenly changes their minds, and get wiped out at the next General while saddling us with Life President Farage
I wonder whether Starmer stands to personally gain from paving the way for the Owners’ preferred viceroy. Perhaps a few months after conceding defeat and solemnly shaking Farage’s hand, he’ll be sitting on the boards of several funds, attending the meetings remotely from the deck of his new superyacht.
I honestly think he's too boring an individual to be engaged in some kind of secret background dealing.
I think the real reason is he's just incredibly stubborn and doesn't have good political instincts. I'm sure he'll blame Peter Mandelson for all of this (sure he lied, but there was so much we already knew), even though the whole thing was 100% his fault. He just doesn't seem to have the ability to accept responsibility for his own stupid decisions.
Mandelson got him his job. Starmer's not obtuse enough to have failed to realise that.
Broke: Brits are dumb for voting for Brexit in 2016
Woke: Brits are dumb are voting against Alternative Vote in 2011
Not to be that guy but alternative vote isn't proportional representation. The arguement for voting against it was that if we go for alternative vote, they will use that as an excuse to never implement proper proportional representation.
I do not know how sound of the decision that was, but that was the general feeling at the time. But that memory seems to have been lost and the narrative now seems to be that people were stupid for voting against it. It really wasn't that simple.
It would have been a step in the right direction. If nothing else, it would have shown we could change the voting scheme without the world falling apart.
Both were true, although AV is not ideal.
AV was an attempt to plaster over a major problem, and it wouldn't have solved anything.
Neither will any form of PR. All electoral systems have antidemocratic corner cases and all can be gamed. Some are less bad than FPTP but none are a panacea, and countries that have used such systems don't appear to have much better governance than other countries with comparable weath and levels of development.
Well it would be a damn sight better than the current system we've got. Literally anything would be a damn sight better than the current system we've got.
In reality, we don't know that although I do agree in principle.
Well we kind of do actually.
Alternative vote is just what they called it but it was going to be single transferable vote.
So let's run a mock election, You've got the same old parties that we've currently got, Greens, Labour, Lib Dem (for some reason), Conservatives, Reform
So let's say I vote as follows;
1 Greens.
2 Labour.
3 Lib Dems.
I don't vote for the conservatives or reform.
Let's say the greens get knocked out, so my vote transfers to labour. The Lib Dems also get knocked out so my vote stays with labour, on the other side the conservative votes get knocked out and they go to reform. So it's now Reform vs Labour - regardless of who wins it's still going to be one party that was voted for by a minority of the population in power and controlling the lives of a bunch of people who didn't vote for them, not just people that would have preferred to have someone else, people who explicitly did not vote for them. The system is still inherently unfair.
Ultimately it's still going to be a left-wing party or a right-wing party in charge, and those people are going to completely ignore the desires and interests of the other group. Just as they do now.
The only system that guarantees cooperation and mutual compromise is Proportional Representation. The extremist attitude of my way or the highway will just not work under that system. Sure we will get some reform idiots in power, but they are in power right now anyway and at least under proportional representation if they're not willing to compromise and work with other people (which they won't), they won't be able to do anything.