They got scared by Framework sucess
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Could they please cooperate with Framework and create Universal Joints?
At a guess, such cooperation would undermine Lenovo's profit margin and would thus be a non-starter for them.
Enter government regulation, to pinch corporations by the ear and drag them to doing what's right for society.
Just a lil nitpick: article is by iFixit who is a Lenovo business partner. So perhaps less objective than one might hope.
It seems to me that Lenovo’s repairably is more affected by that iFixit partnership than the opposite. I don’t see anything factually wrong or suspicious in the article.
Nevertheless, a conflict of interests is possible.
As someone who has changed a laptop keyboard before.
That picture says it all.
I use iFixit's guides all the time, so I would hope that their score isn't affected by it. I've seen them as being fairly good at their role.
This is true, but they're also not wrong that fully-modular USB-C ports is an absolutely huge win. It's one of the biggest things when it comes to laptops these days.
It's unlikely that fact will change the repairability of the devices. They risk too much by posting biased and false information on that end.
There's a difference between 'repairable' and 'upgradable.' Most of the comments seem to conflate the two. Lenovo isn't doing a Framework.
It's a smart move. Differentiates them from other laptop-makers for corporate IT, who can do the parts swaps themselves. Also smart is associating the brand with iFixit and working to get a 10/10. That'll be what sets them apart from all the others, at least for the next year or two.
There's a difference between 'repairable' and 'upgradable.'
Absolutely! I've got a Lenovo IdeaPad Flex 5 (laptop/tablet thingy).
I've upgraded/replaced the ssd - no problem.
Unfortunately, this laptop has an issue with the keyboard: the left section/panel intermittently stops sending inputs. Meaning, keys like escape, a, w, shift, l-control - just stop (even in the bios). I'd read that they keyboard "collects" static which causes problems with certain sections of the keyboard.
I thought I'd see how difficult it would be to replace the keyboard. I watched a teardown video, and of course you need to remove everything... but I lost it when, the person in the video used a heat gun to melt "plastic rivits" that connected the keyboard to the motherboard case. Then with the replacement keyboard needed to remelt the plastic rivits.
This laptop is not repairable. In fact, I swore I'd never buy another Lenovo again as a result. ... but if their focus is on making them repairable (and their recent partnership with GrapheneOS) - I might be eating crow tonight.
The "upgradability" part in a small laptop is questionable to me, anyway.
The GPU is really compromised in that chassis, as having it in a slot compromises cooling big time, and limits how much power it can use. And while I love upgradable RAM for the CPU... it'd be better if they used faster CAMM modules. Many other brands have upgradable SSDs/WiFi.
Swappable ports are awesome, no question.
...But honestly, I'd rather have a smaller chassis, bigger GPU and better cooling right off the bat, like a Zephyrus chassis. And have it reparable, but not compromise the chassis so severely to make it upgradable with really limited options.
A think pad t series is not really much harder to take apart than a framework. Just more screws and fewer magnets. The screen is probably an exception however.
That's his point. It's similar to framework, but not the same.
Easy repairability is great, truly.
But framework offers more than that, easy repairability AND upgradability, because they offer new upgraded parts with the same compatibility as the old ones, so you can just drop them in.
Lenovo is not yet doing that. Which is fine. Just a noteworthy difference.
I would be curious to see how often people actually upgrade their frameworks.
I agree with their repair stance. It just feels like one of those things people will tell you they want and then never do.
Still maybe the explosion in memory prices will change the incentives and people will start holding things longer. It will be interesting to see.
I would be curious to see how often people actually upgrade their frameworks.
For me, I've upgraded my mainboard to a newer CPU generation for better integrated graphics (old one is in a case as a home server) and I upgraded to their matte screen when they released those.
It is a bigger deal in business settings, where one laptop can see multiple hands and you've got a team dedicated to repair.
Not typically an issue for the individual user, but increasingly an issue for a team of users as the size of the team grows
I got my framework about a year ago, before the tariffs got crazy, and well before ram got crazy (I put 96 gigs in it to play with AI workloads, and for the lulz).
My plan is to ride this thing until it starts showing its age. Which I imagine will be another 3 or 4 years? Only then can I comment on my actual desire and commitment to upgrading it.
Until then, I'm just banking on the fact that the company will a) live. And b) still have parts for my machine.
I do appreciate what they're doing, and I like my machine now.
There are definitely people out there who upgrade super frequently, who knows, maybe I'll be one of them in 1 or 2 years instead of 3 or 4. Hard to say what life will look like then, the way things go these days.
I've been a ThinkPad user for about 4 years now, got a second-hand T470s running Fedora. It's been an amazing experience! I'm not one for brand loyalty, but (so long as Lenovo doesn't fuck them up) ThinkPads will always be my first choice for a laptop.
Yeah I like Lenovo in general too! I have an Ideapad rather than a Thinkpad, but this is my second Lenovo and they've both lasted for ages, never had any weird problems, played nice with Linux etc.
Lenovo also owns the Motorola phone brand, and they're going to adopt/allow GrapheneOS. I think they know how to grab customers right now, and I honestly like it.
They're usually also well supported on Linux, and even sell them with Ubuntu pre-installed. Generally not a terrible brand.
Didn't they have some huge controversy for having spyware pre-installed or something like that a few years ago? Doesn't take away from the direction they're moving in now, though! Hopefully they continue to move in this more pro-consumer direction.
I presume you are referring to the SuperFish scandal in 2015.
Yeah the Superfish incident. AFAIK they haven't done anything sketchy since then and if you're the type to just wipe everything and install your own distro anyway it shouldn't really affect anything but still not a great look.
Ubuntu? Yeah. It's pretty much the only distro I will recommend against using (the Ubuntu spins are usually fine though). They offer Fedora as well though. And it's still way better than Winblows.
What’s the price of this compared to a comparable (feature-wise) laptop? Just curious what the repairability premium is.
First, you have to define "comparable". These are Enterprise-grade laptops. Their class includes the Dell Latitude and HP Elitebook. It doesn't include anything you will ever find at Best Buy. It might be tempting to do so, since your visible specs like CPU and RAM are the same. But they really aren't the same.
Within their class, Lenovo has (for over a decade) been noticeably more expensive than their counterparts. Roughly $100-150 more per unit for the T4x0/T14 vs a Latitude 74x0 (now Dell Pro) or an Elitebook 840.
Current prices are: HP Elitebook 8 G1i 14 - Core Ultra 5 236v, 16GB/512GB, $1249
Dell Pro 14 - Core Ultra 5 236v, 16GB/512GB, $1659
Lenovo Thinkpad T14 Gen 6 - Core Ultra 235u, 16GB/512GB, $1809.
All have integrated graphics.
I don't think the detailed specs/pricing for Gen7 (what the article is about) has been announced yet. I would expect it to be in line with previous generations, since their 9/10 repairability score was.
Schematics or die
In six years I have burnt through two Lenovo ThinkPads. In the first the USB C charging port malfunctioned, and it turns out the charging port is soldered directly to the motherboard so they had to replace the whole thing. Ever since I got it back from repairs it enters into kernel panics all the time, no matter which distro I install.
I was in the middle of writing my thesis so I had no time for repairs when it broke, so I ordered mysef a new ThinkPad. I had to choose between pre-assembled models, and I wanted a high resolution display, a good processor, and some other things. I got one with not quite as much RAM as I really needed, and found out when I wanted to upgrade that they had rendered upgrading RAM completely impossible in that model of ThinkPad. It wasn't even one of the new slim ones, but a traditional bulky one. Complete bullshit.
Both of these laptops are recent enough that had they not sucked I would still be using them years from now. I'm happy Lenovo appear to be changing their ways, but I wouldn't touch another ThinkPad with a stick after my experiences with them.
Currently I'm using a Framework 13. Hopefully it'll last me decades.
Ooh yes baby! As an early Framework adopter who's repaired it already a few times, including a solder job on the board, I am happy to see it. I am getting increasingly angsty about where Framework would go in the future as its VCs crank up the profit knob. Having the biggest real manufacturer in the world introduce an alternative is fantastic. With that said, it also depends on Lenovo actually making parts direct-for-purchase available at decent prices. Without that, repairability serves just as marketing wank.
E: Is that a magnesium body plate?
They make them that way so ram could eventually go in?