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312
Trump says US 'hit' dock in Venezuela, marking first known land attack (abcnews.go.com)
submitted 4 months ago by RegularJoe@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[–] Puddinghelmet@lemmy.world 61 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

Trump has been hinting for several weeks at carrying out attacks in Venezuela. In October, he acknowledged that he had given the foreign intelligence agency, the CIA, secret orders to plan attacks in the country.

And for months, the United States has been attacking boats it claims are linked to drug trafficking from Venezuela, but it has not provided evidence that these “narcoterrorists” actually pose a direct threat to the U.S. The government argues that this threat justifies military force. However, many critics and legal experts point out that there is no proof of a direct threat to the US, thus no formal armed conflict, meaning these operations amount to illegally killings in international waters. At least 105 people have already been killed.

In fact, relatively few drugs come from Venezuela into the U.S. The synthetic opioid fentanyl causes the most fatalities in the US, but is mainly produced by Mexican cartels from Chinese raw materials, NOT Venezuelan cartels. The US seems to want to see leftist authoritarian leader Nicolás Maduro leave. Wth? So Trump is just like Putin attacking Ukraine?

[–] petrjanda@gonzo.markets 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It seems the whole point is to provoke Maduro to respond in order to escalate into a full blown conflict. Maduro needs to go but let's not forget about Cuba, the immoral embargo on the poor Carribbean country and what did it achieve ? Nothing, the regime hasn't changed. The reason is not drugs, the reason is oil. The trump administration thinks it owns Venezuelan oil and oil is all that Trump can think about.

[–] Puddinghelmet@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

So America ensures 'peace by enforcing it' (from the national security strategy) on Venezuela, why even have a democracy?

[–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 17 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Yes, Trump is exactly like Putin attacking Ukrain

[–] Puddinghelmet@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Putins wants Ukraine for resources and to have Zelensky out and is bombing them, America wants to bully Maduro out AND for the largest oil reservoir in the world in Venezuela so they also bomb them... Ok?

[–] zebidiah@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The only reason trump hasn't attacked Canada is because we are demographically uncooperative with standard US bombing campaigns....

[–] Alaik@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 months ago

Pretty sure its because you guys could fight back

[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Alcohol and tobacco are by far the worst of any drugs ever created.

[–] Krono@lemmy.today 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There have been many studies on this subject (none in the US, since we are under strict prohibition). They calculate both harm to user and harm to society.

Almost all these studies are in agreement that there are three classes of 'hard' drugs that are significantly worse than the rest- opioids, amphetamines, and alcohol. Many rate alcohol as slightly more destructive than the other two.

Tobacco is rated significantly less harmful, mostly because of the amount of tobacco it takes to do harm. No one dies from a single night of heavy smoking; many people die from a single night of alcohol, amphetamines, or opiates. Second-hand smoke is dangerous, but not nearly as dangerous as a drunk driver.

Personally I think these studies underrate benzodiazipines, they should be considered the fourth class of hard drugs imo.

[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This is a great response.

When harm to society is considered, does that include such things as health care, legal/criminal, and damages to property? Death would obviously be a more weigghted category.

The single use danger makes sense.

I wonder, is length of horrific suffering and toll it takes and trauma it leaves, a factor?

(My dad was a drinker, his many medical issues attributed to drinking were not much fun to witness over the 7 months I had to stay with them til he died.

I am not ok.)

[–] Krono@lemmy.today 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sorry to hear about your father.

I believe the study considered everything you mentioned, you can see the categories in this graph:

PDF of the study is available: Drug harms in the UK: A multi-criterion decision analysis

[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago

Thanks for these stats. Its nice to see actual data.

It's not exactly a revelation. Seeing the drugs that were all the rave in the 90s/00's at the bottom end of the data and remembering the UK gov and police going hard against the love, all the while docs are prescribing the worst and pubs are serving the king of the worst.

Also, Imagine if alcohol were illegal.

And thanks for the sentiment.

Its been years now but I still have flashbacks and it makes me want to drink. I don't drink, seing what it did to his body. He was otherwise an upstanding and very well respected member of community and society. He just liked his beer and whiskey at the end of the day. Every day.

Though I have done every other drug on that list aside from khat. I don't anymore.

Just the best 7 or 8 of them.

[–] MML@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Uh there's Krokodil (actually it turns out most of what you read is the production not the literal chemical desomorphine causing most of the issues you hear about)

[–] Puddinghelmet@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Also "relatively few drugs come from Venezuela into the U.S. The synthetic opioid fentanyl causes the most fatalities in the US, but is mainly produced by Mexican cartels from Chinese raw materials."

[–] BlackVenom@lemmy.world -3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

No.

[–] chunes@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

In terms of mortality it's not even close. Alcohol alone kills nearly twice as many people as all other drugs combined.

Tobacco, 5x as many.

[–] nyctre@piefed.social 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sure, but isn't that just because anyone can buy them in the supermarket? Start selling opioids in the same way and I'm pretty sure those stats would change.

Is the AK-47 the worst weapon we've created just because it's killed the most people? I don't think that's how those stats are supposed to be used, imo.

[–] ctrl_alt_esc@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There are several countries that basically did this and no, the stats don't change. In fact, de-criminalizing those drugs has lead to a decrease in usage and associated deaths in all cases I'm aware of.

[–] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Decriminalization isn’t anywhere near the same as legalization. One means you wont go to jail when you get caught with it despite it being illegal to sell, while the other means it's legal to possess, buy, and sell.

I'm also curious about the rates of users to deaths and not just total number of deaths as most adults use alcohol at some point while only a tiny percent use stuff like meth or heroin.

[–] Krono@lemmy.today 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Studies in the UK show that there are three classes of 'hard' drugs - alcohol, amphetamines, and opioids.

All three roughly follow the '10% rule': 10% of people who try these drugs become addicted, and 10% of addicts die from their addiction.

Meth, heroin, and alcohol each kill about 1% of the people who try them.

Drug harms in the UK: a multicriteria decision analysis

[–] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Its an interesting abstract but unfortunately doesn't include the data or breakdown of methodology without having Lancet access.

Members of the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs, including two invited specialists, met in a 1-day interactive workshop to score 20 drugs on 16 criteria: nine related to the harms that a drug produces in the individual and seven to the harms to others. Drugs were scored out of 100 points, and the criteria were weighted to indicate their relative importance.

[–] Krono@lemmy.today 1 points 4 months ago

Here's a better link where you can download the full PDF Drug harms in the UK: A multi-criterion decision analysis

[–] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago

Trump is like Bush Jr attacking Iraq over some nonexistent "WMDs."

[–] Asfalttikyntaja@sopuli.xyz 1 points 4 months ago

Because Trump wants to look just as tough guy as Putin. He needs to start a war which he can win.

[–] Xanthobilly@lemmy.world 45 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

A dock? Such a rapey “just the tip,” approach. “Hey Venezuela, if you don’t fight back, it’ll hurt less.”

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 21 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's all he knows.

[–] Ste41th@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 months ago

I loved the part where he said he knows nothing about it then says afterwards he just found out about it lmao

[–] Washedupcynic@lemmy.ca 41 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Here is a source from a media company that isn't the mouthpiece for DJT. That source has on the ground video footage in Venezuela. Fuck Trump, and fuck his entire administration.

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 15 points 4 months ago

ABC isn't a government mouthpiece. I would trust the right-wing Telegraph even less.

[–] Insekticus@aussie.zone 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This regime is leaving a massive steaming pile of shit in its wake that it won't care about if it wins next election, or know the repercussions will absolutely savage the next democratic government into really hard positions to make reparations.

[–] n0respect@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I think they do know. They want it, because they want the US government to fail. If not from direct takeover, by the method you suggest

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 39 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Imo Maduro should cut a security deal with china and fuck up trump's whole game. I'm tired of this forever war bullshit over oil.

[–] 0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Many yankistanis are already gushing over this, if china gets involved, they would be signing up in droves to kill "communists" escalating things even more.

The rest of the west should be putting pressure against this, but they are proving themselves to be spineless once again.

[–] zebidiah@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Can you name a time "the west" wasn't spineless cowards?

... Asking for a Polish friend in 1939

[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yes, before the illegal immigrants in the big wooden boats showed up.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

The ones with guns looking to pay off debts?

[–] Asfalttikyntaja@sopuli.xyz 3 points 4 months ago

Better a one-time bang than constant whining.

[–] WanderWisley@lemmy.world 32 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I start a war, I ended that war. Where is my noble peace prize?! 🫲🍊🫱

[–] Puddinghelmet@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You get: mass strikes until the dissolution of the whole government. 🥳

[–] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Rape some children then start a war to distract.

About as obvious as it gets.

[–] SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I hope he seriously overextends the military, and needs a draft. We will get to see how big and tough the MAGAs really are.

[–] eletes@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think it'd be a while before they did a draft. Money would be pumped into Palantir/Oracle/Lockheed/Raytheon first

[–] VoodooAardvark@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 months ago

That’s probably the plan.

[–] beemikeoak@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 4 months ago

On other stupid news my neighbor's are moving out. A different neighbor sold their house for 1.4 million and another for 1.3 million. Let that soak in. That's $12,000.00 just in yearly taxes. So now these other neighbors are going to put their house up for sale and the question is when? When is this housing bubble going to pop? My boss cannot pay for a house like that, I can't pay for a house like that. $4000.00 a month for mortgage plus utilities, taxes and insurance. There's no way a renter could afford a rent like that for a house in a residential neighborhood with not much going for it. This is bonkers or maybe I need to get a better paying job and ratchet this baby up to 2 million.