this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2025
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Chapotraphouse

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[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 55 points 4 months ago (3 children)

average American political coherence

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 46 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

It is not that incoherent. Trump ran on a populist campaign, remember?

The rise of populism in American politics in the 2010s can be directly traced to the 2008 global financial crisis, during which nine million of American families lost their homes and millions more lost their jobs and their wealth. It was the last straw after decades of de-industrialization.

For an average American who just wants the jobs to come back, there is no difference between Trump and Sanders, if you look past the social progressive policies (and I suspect most American workers don’t give a damn about the terminally online chud stuff at all).

Sanders gave up and has completely assimilated into the DNC establishment, and campaigned for Joe Biden.

Trump won the first election, but regardless of his personal views, is completely unable to re-shore American jobs because the Wall Street financial capital simply won’t allow it. Sanders would have faced the same obstacles too if he were to be elected as president (and at that point, you can be sure that he has been 100% compromised by the establishment).

The point is that left-wing populism is always popular in America, but the material conditions simply aren’t there yet.

Material conditions don’t mean quality of life, as many internet leftists mistakenly think so. It means that a set of conditions determined by material forces will have to be fulfilled first.

For example, labor in modern US society is no longer tied to production, but to debt (the rentier economy), since its transition away from industrial capitalism into hyper-financialized capitalism, much like how a feudal society cannot unleash the revolutionary potential of the masses because labor was still tied to land (hence, land reform being one of the conditions toward socialism).

The big question is how do you re-proletarianize the American working class? It would require an extensive change in the current material conditions, for example, the collapse of Wall Street and the financialized system, the re-shoring of American industries etc. It would require a thorough class analysis into the 21st century American society. The conditions are unique to America - having to also take into account the historical development of its racial discrimination, imperial ambitions, dollar hegemony (financial imperialism) etc. that are very different from other countries.

I honestly don’t see much good quality work being done on this front, so the answers will continue to elude us until the Americans have their own body of analyses like Marx/Lenin/Mao did.

[–] calidris@hexbear.net 26 points 4 months ago

The big question is how do you re-proletarianize the American working class? It would require an extensive change in the current material conditions, for example, the collapse of Wall Street and the financialized system, the re-shoring of American industries etc. It would require a thorough class analysis into the 21st century American society. The conditions are unique to America - having to also take into account the historical development of its racial discrimination, imperial ambitions, dollar hegemony (financial imperialism) etc. that are very different from other countries.

This is well said. I've been trying to explain to a few budding comrades what you describe here.

My less eloquent attempt was simply American's have yet to feel enough pain from the boot on their neck. The pressure was spread across foreign workers for a very long time. Inevitably, it will come back home. That day appears to be quickly approaching, if it's not already here.

[–] thedarkfly@feddit.nl 4 points 4 months ago

Thank you for the in-depth analysis, very enlightening!

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 37 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

This is more coherent than it looks (though still not that coherent, to be clear). They both claim to put Americans first. They both look down on liberation movements in the Global South. The American "political spectrum" just isn't that wide.

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 20 points 4 months ago

so chauvinist, but one is social chauvinist and the other ultra-chavinist, aight, got it

[–] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I've heard he's in the running for Grand Dragon of the NYDSA

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 31 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I think they intuitively recognise that something is wrong, that they are being fucked, that the whole establishment is bad. They go for outsiders to it as a result of this.

The problem is that they can't tell which outsider is lying to them and which outsider is telling them the truth. They just know that the insiders are all "the swamp".

[–] mar_k@hexbear.net 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Would make sense in 2016, but Trump is the biggest insider there is today

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

They don't exactly have options.

It's the same in the UK. Everyone can recognise "None of the options we've tried have been good" so what do they do? They give it to whatever other option is available. That's Reform next.

The attitude I see over here is also partially "fuck it then, break everything, I don't care". Which is a partial manifestation of latent revolutionary energy.

[–] alexei_1917@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago

What I'm hearing is that several countries all need a Bolshevik Party.

[–] BountifulEggnog@hexbear.net 9 points 4 months ago

No idea how a person can make it through the last decade and not intuitively know trump is bad too

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 33 points 4 months ago

I guess the patsocs got it all wrong. If you wanna do maga-communism you gotta do it as a socdem who maintains a reputation for being a clean outsider to the establishment.

Basically the same reasons some of them went for Bernie. They recognise that the 2 parties are trash and want outsiders that are clean of the establishment corruption that they intuitively recognise. But they can't tell the difference about which outsider is lying.

[–] LeninWalksTheEarth@hexbear.net 25 points 4 months ago (1 children)

sorry, sweetie, it's actually because Mamdani makes really good Tiktoks. Schumer tiktok dance is on the way.

[–] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

advisors deciding it's because of the "eating with his hands" thing and we start getting political ads with senators eating fistfuls of spaghetti

[–] alexei_1917@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago

American libs will do literally anything except admit that rational and reasonable people like socialism. Even the watered down demsoc interpretation of it that's the closest we ever see at all here on Turtle Island.

[–] UltraGreen@hexbear.net 24 points 4 months ago

Not surprising that the average American looks at liberal establishment politicians as what is wrong with the government, would side with people who seem like they could "shake up" the status quo.

Now, Trump didn't do that, he just turned up the tap. Mamdani? I don't know, he's a compromise candidate for sure. When fascists are all you have, the dem soc looks great.

[–] buckykat@hexbear.net 21 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The Kubrick stare is a technique used to portray insane or unstable characters in film. In a Kubrick stare, an actor looks out from under the brow line and tilts their head towards the camera.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

kubrick-stare

The “Kubrick Stare” is one of Stanley Kubrick‘s most recognizable directorial techniques, a method of shot composition where a character stares at the camera with a forward tilt, to convey to the audience that the character in question is at the peak of their derangement.

[–] Civility@hexbear.net 16 points 4 months ago
[–] roux@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago

Even if voting mattered in the States, it still wouldn't matter.

[–] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Ahead of the curve