this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2025
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Slop.

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Chuds being so terminally online that they lost the ability to enjoy anything brings joy to my heart penguin-love

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[–] ryepunk@hexbear.net 48 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Fuckkkkkkk frothingfash The best part of the old alien sci Fi crap was how it totally wasn't about metaphors! It was just about a gross alien murdering people in cool sci Fi land. With graphic detail! And also cool but weird robots dudes who had white blood, and did a fancy knife trick that totally doesn't get done way too often by idiots. Now you're telling me I gotta think about the movie just in the main text of the movie. Fucking libs.

Leaving the froth behind, it has been hilarious to see artists realizing they cannot rely on subtext anymore to tell stories because the right wing are so stupid as to miss it every time. So now it's fairly obvious, subtext is often just the text, and they hate that they have to confront their terrible opinions or otherwise just end up hating a significant chunk of art being produced in the now. Usually they just decide to call it bad and opine for golden days of film where they could happily misunderstand the point of the movie.

[–] CrawlMarks@hexbear.net 40 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Subtext was invented by the CIA to keep you from showing how capitlaism is bad. It is for cowards and should be abolished.

[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 28 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

This sounds like a hyperbolic joke but it's actually true, for anyone who's unaware of the history there. US intelligence funded "education" for writers that held that points and meanings must be shown rather than told, misrepresenting Chekov's old advice for playwrights that background details should be shown through set dressing and practical effects instead of worked into spoken dialogue. This formed the idea that authors must hide their meaning behind symbolism and allegory as a clever treat for smart lads who figure it out, instead of directly arguing any point through the text. They also funded the vapid post-modern art scene that effectively held the same stance for artists, with this idea that the meaning of art should be a secret puzzle of symbols and reasoning that leaves the viewer to decide the truth of the piece for themselves.

This combined to cultivate this status quo of media that just kind of does stuff and has vibes and any intent and messages are hidden away in secret extra layers, only to be experienced through wild speculation where anyone can simply decide on an interpretation and justify it, which defangs art as a medium for propaganda and trains audiences to just happily chow down on the surface aesthetics.

Symbolism and allegory should be tools for emphasis or foreshadowing, being tasty little mind treats for clever or educated consumers, but they should never be the primary carrier of meaning in a work. If you have a point to make, beat the audience over and about the head with it, tell it to them outright, and then repeat this at least one or two more times, and you'll maybe get through to a fraction of them.

Edit: I went and found the link to the history of the CIA funding this sort of shit https://citationsneeded.medium.com/episode-144-how-the-cold-war-shaped-first-person-journalism-and-literary-conventionss-42bf68ccaef

[–] culpritus@hexbear.net 17 points 5 days ago

The Iowa Writers’ Workshop was such a deep psyop, and it's effects are still reverberating in contemporary amerikkka

[–] UmmmCheckPlease@hexbear.net 11 points 5 days ago

Incredible follow up comment. It’s been too long since I’ve listened to citations-needed and this episode sounds interesting af. And hilarious. And infuriating. Classic citations-needed

I like art to be a puzzle box of meaning sometimes!

And the CIA writing program; have you tried it? It really is quite good. Those fuckers know how to make shit up based on literally nothing!

The problem is when there's nothing else, and its incomprehensible puzzles getting off on how hard they are or pointless llm slop.

[–] theturtlemoves@hexbear.net 17 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Art having layers is good. Artists should respect themselves and the intelligence of the public, and not dumb down their message. The problem is that the public do not have access to a rich education that would enable them to appreciate good art.

[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 12 points 5 days ago (4 children)

That is fundamentally wrong. Hiding your point inside a puzzle box that can be rearranged at the whim of the consumer isn't "respecting your audience", and an education in how to take apart and assemble puzzle boxes at will as well as an education in all the pop culture and historical references and cultural associations for symbols that are likely to be pieces should not be a requirement for someone to walk away having understood your point.

Like these things really are not deep, they are not profound, they're a bunch of fun, silly little references and coded allusions to be enjoyed as a treat. Trying to use them as the sole conveyor of your message is like using a sudoku puzzle as a cipher key or reducing a political manifesto to a crossword puzzle, except worse because those have discrete answers and art symbolism and analysis is more like a game of madlibs where the audience can just say whatever and if they're educated in literary analysis they can just bullshit whatever "truth" they decide it should have.

Acting like indirectness and hiding everything beneath a vapid surface layer is the defining feature that separates prestigious "art" from slop is literally a CIA psyop playing off elitism. Gatekeeping meaning behind specific forms of elite education respects no one - you should meet people where they are and respect their interests and attention spans, rather than just insisting that everyone should learn to untangle symbolism and allegory and endeavor to solve these puzzles for fun to earn access to meaning.

[–] theturtlemoves@hexbear.net 18 points 5 days ago (1 children)

an education in all the pop culture and historical references and cultural associations for symbols that are likely to be pieces should not be a requirement for someone to walk away having understood your point.

All works reference older works. They do this because they can't start from '1 + 1 = 2', and there is no point in reinventing the wheel when you can do something new with it.

Acting like indirectness and hiding everything beneath a vapid surface layer is the defining feature that separates prestigious "art" from slop is literally a CIA psyop playing off elitism.

Oh, I didn't know that Shakespeare was being a CIA plant when he rmade references to Greek and Roman mythology. Or Euripedes when he parodied even older Greek writers.

Gatekeeping meaning behind specific forms of elite education respects no one

Right, so make that 'elite education' available to all so it's no longer 'elite'.

[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

All works reference older works.

No shit. You still shouldn't rely on references as the primary carriers of meaning when you have a point to make unless you're writing for a very narrow audience that you know will get those specific references. You shouldn't be relying on your audience recognizing a name as derived from a minor greek god, or that you're structurally paralleling a book that's on high school reading lists, or expecting them to have a grounding in 19th century cultural associations between symbols and colors for them to understand what you're saying.

Shakespeare

Shakespeare was writing slop for hogs in a vulgar dialect. He was literally meeting the public where they were in language they would understand and packaged with fart jokes they would enjoy.

a CIA plant when he rmade references to Greek and Roman mythology.

Remember that I said that symbolism, allegory, and allusion are fun little treats, they're something to fill out and reinforce a work or add foreshadowing. What I am criticizing is the practice of hiding one's point behind them, of secreting it away in a post-truth realm of free interpretation where anyone can reasonably argue you're trying to say whatever they want to imagine your point is.

If you have a point to make, it should be blunt, textual, and preferably repeated and symbolism etc should enter in as additional layers beyond that rather than instead of that.

Right, so make that 'elite education' available to all so it's no longer 'elite'.

You're still going to have people who bounce off of it, or don't retain all the mountains of possible works or concepts, or who don't enjoy the process of unraveling the special smart-lad puzzle box you've crafted, and you still can't get around the intractable fact that if the meaning of a work isn't textual it may as well literally be whatever bullshit any given reader claims it is.

[–] Euergetes@hexbear.net 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Hiding your point inside a puzzle box

this is such an disrespectful way to talk about art for everyone involved. including you, why don't you value the fact you've learned things and that makes art richer? the world is a complicated place and shunning subtext and nuance you're never going to be able to talk about many subjects in an interesting way.

and "elitism"--come on, secondary school literacy is not a huge ask, nor is it impossible to pick up through exposure to complicated literature

[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 2 points 5 days ago (2 children)

this is such an disrespectful way to talk about art

It is an accurate way to talk about the role of symbolism and references. It is a toy for people who "get" it, something to play with and feel good about "solving". It is exactly the same as a game that is made to be learned and overcome. It's not profound or special or some magical elevating thing, it's a fun thing made to entertain.

The fact that my point is that if you're not just writing slop to entertain people and actually have a point you want to make you should make sure it's included clearly, bluntly, and textually within the work instead of hiding it away and leaving it up to the audience to interpret their own answers to because otherwise it won't be understood and you leave it open for anyone to just make shit up about it, and I have stated this clearly, bluntly, and in plain text in a very redundant way, and yet several people have failed to understand this and just made up their own meaning to respond to really just proves me right. Even saying your point in the plainest, clearest language you can will still have people miss or ignore it in favor of what they want to imagine, and it's even worse when you leave it ambiguous or make it purely symbolic.

the world is a complicated place and shunning subtext and nuance you're never going to be able to talk about many subjects in an interesting way.

You see, I never said to shun it. I said it's a fun little thing you include to fill out and reinforce your point, but that it can never be the exclusive medium through which you make that point. It's there to make your reader feel clever for getting it, it shouldn't be something gatekeeping comprehension of the work or the receipt of your message.

secondary school literacy is not a huge ask

While that is indeed a very low bar to clear it's also very much not a profound or special collection of trivia to reference. It's a bunch of anticommunist slop and not particularly good old novels with stilted, archaic prose and overly simple language.

There's also the fact that the core of literary analysis in school is making up whatever the fuck you feel like and arguing it like it's a math proof except you also get to make up the rules. So long as you know a few cultural touchstones and are educated enough to spot references you can just say shit means whatever you want and because there's no real textual answer you're right. Which brings us back around to the key point of "if you have something you want a work to say, you really need to make it textual instead of just hoping someone will solve the work like a fun little puzzle and arrive at the conclusion you want, and only after you have done that can you mix in the clever fun stuff to make the consumers feel smart as a treat".

[–] mendiCAN@hexbear.net 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

only a sith deals in absolutes (lol sorry).

i think your point is view is interesting: but consider this perspective: ain't no such thing as communication without subtext. no point of view, no opinion may be stated bluntly enough to remove it. for you've delivered subtext within your stated dislike of its use.

argue in a style that doesn't imply you feel your opinion is a fact, unless blithely mistaking opinions for facts and then getting into online mudfights is fun for you

[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

for you've delivered subtext within your stated dislike of its use.

I've called it fun and a treat that fills out a work, while railing specifically against the practice of replacing clear, explicit meaning with it, at least insofar as a work is supposed to convey some big point or theme.

Does that really sound like dislike to you? The only thing I really hate is pieces that are nothing but symbolism and which have no real truth to them, and which are being treated like being obtuse and inaccessible is something profound and elevating.

[–] mendiCAN@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago

it sounds like arrogance actually. i won't be interacting further with you

[–] Euergetes@hexbear.net 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

yet several people have failed to understand this and just made up their own meaning to respond to really just proves me right

jagoff your arguments just aren't that good

I never said to shun it

by characterizing it as various vapid games, puzzles and 'treats' instead of a valid tool. by insisting that it can only be implemented after things are asserted in the plain way you emphasize.

[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago

Me, repeatedly: "This is something fun, a treat to fill out and reinforce your point, that cannot replace your point and should not be used to hide it away and make your message ambiguous."

Other people, somehow: "So what you're saying is no-fun-allowed?"

Me: "No, [repeats what I just said]"

Other people, still not getting it: "So fun is bad, and we're bad?"

[–] test_@hexbear.net 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

You need both.

Indirect communication is absorbed subconsciously. When you look at cinematography, for example, the same scene can fall flat or grip you like a vice depending on how it's visually presented. That's not just magic, there are layers of structure and communication that your subconscious picks up on, which someone had to put thought into. The aim isn't to hide the point but to reinforce it, the direct and indirect stuff work in concert.

If all the communication is indirect, that can be a hallmark of elitism or deliberate opaqueness. But pretty much any effective work of art will have layers of structure that are not consciously registered. This isn't surprising, because it's also how we process real life; your first impression of a person or place is synthesized subconsciously from the little details you observe during the encounter, it's not a galaxy-brained conscious analysis.

Art communicates through experience, and subconscious pattern recognition is a big part of how we perceive and organize experience. Even when the artist goes by feel, what they are feeling is those layers; they feel them the same way we feel them, and it guides their decisions. The best artists are often pretty good at retroactively explaining or rationalizing their intuitive decisions, and will develop their own theories to augment that intuition.

I hope I'm not explaining the obvious or missing the point, I'm just trying to say that direct and indirect are not mutually exclusive, it's a false choice. You have to make detailed decisions either way, in the execution of the work, so you might as well be intentional about them. It will only strengthen the impact of your overt communication.

[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago

I hope I'm not explaining the obvious or missing the point

Only in that we are, fundamentally, saying the same thing. I'm just emphasizing the absolute necessity of clarity if you want to actually say something, as a direct counterweight to the people who keep arguing for the primacy of symbolism and don't seem to understand what the discussion is even about here.

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 29 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The first Predator movie is literally about the kinds of guys that chuds worship getting their asses clapped by a superior force

Dutch only wins by using the one thing Chuds don't want to use

His brain

[–] CrawlMarks@hexbear.net 6 points 5 days ago

He does also use the power of makeup on several occasions

The best part of the movie is when she invites her friends over and gives the predator a makeover while they drink rosé, share feelings and cry. 💝💄👠

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 34 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Is it really like that or is it the same story about a hunter from a culture that bases its entire culture around the hunt who gains respect for the hunted through the way they demonstrate themselves like every other Predator movie?

[–] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 12 points 5 days ago

Also, the predator’s own code is everything chuds consider woke:

“There's no challenge in hunting prey that can't or is unlikely to put up a good fight: the very young, the very old, the sick or weakened, the unarmed.”

Yeah, they’re still the villains in the series. But CHUDs whole philosophy is that they’re the natural predators of the world, and the weaker their prey, the more satisfying it is to make their lives a living hell. That’s fascism right there.

[–] Leon_Grotsky@hexbear.net 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I know next to nothing about the movie, but isn't she an android?

E) What I mean is, isn't the usual story beat with the androids that they're a question of what is and isn't "human" and like OOP's just complaining about the basic themes of an Alien/Predator movie

[–] KrasMazov@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 5 days ago

How do these chuds even live? I can't imagine being this insuferable. They don't enjoy anything.

[–] happybadger@hexbear.net 26 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I can't even watch the new Predator. He doesn't have a penis anymore??? The best part of the old movies was the penis reveal.

[–] SuperZutsuki@hexbear.net 24 points 5 days ago (2 children)

They replaced the penis reveal with the predator learning how to put on makeup because she's TRANS now

[–] nothx@hexbear.net 19 points 5 days ago (1 children)

frothingfash THE PREDATORS ARE THEY/THEMS NOW!!!!!

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 9 points 5 days ago

Unironically let's do this. It might confuse the frothingfash when they start talking about "trans predators in the bathrooms" and they can't tell who's arguing about movies and who isn't.

[–] UmmmCheckPlease@hexbear.net 11 points 5 days ago

Getting hunted, but I’m actually really happy for them (and grateful they chose today to practice wearing heels)

[–] BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net 17 points 5 days ago (2 children)

What is that profile picture? Red Hand of Ulster, but with a US flag? catgirl-huh

[–] puppygirlpets@hexbear.net 11 points 5 days ago

that would fit the username

[–] Keld@hexbear.net 8 points 5 days ago

american unionist but horrible

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 22 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

SMH these tourists don't even know that every Yautja is a woman half the time

an emotional journey

Why can't we just go back to the good old days of movies about unemotional journeys??

[–] Belly_Beanis@hexbear.net 16 points 5 days ago

Or that they live under a matriarchy lmao

The reason males are seen more often in movies and whatnot is because the females stay on Yautja planets, ruling over them. The males are the only ones sent off-world, like how young women are sent on missionary trips overseas IRL. Except instead of trying to convert people to a religion, the predators hunt the most dangerous game they can find to prove themselves.

[–] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 14 points 5 days ago

Back in MY day, alien orcs got redeemed by good grandfathers! (And just a little bit of head trauma)

goku-halal

[–] ChuzaUzarNaim@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 5 days ago

Every part of this is idiotic.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 16 points 5 days ago

We used to be a Galaxy. A proper Galaxy. frothingfash

[–] Ilixtze@lemmy.ml 12 points 5 days ago

Predator already had vagina dentata mouth; The sings were always there

[–] SuperZutsuki@hexbear.net 12 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] mendiCAN@hexbear.net 4 points 4 days ago

i wish it were woke, it was just cgi slop written for the widest international audience possible. i almost left. In the off-chance you're serious wait to pirate it

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 7 points 5 days ago

my little predator: friendship and gore is magic

[–] mendiCAN@hexbear.net 6 points 4 days ago

watched this film last night. it's extremely bad, in an unfun way. not so bad it's good, more like a paint by numbers movie. its not a predator movie (if there is such a thing), it's a superhero origin story with hopes of franchise building. A predator-like PCU franchise or something.

and i loved "Prey"

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)
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