this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2025
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Slop.
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It is an accurate way to talk about the role of symbolism and references. It is a toy for people who "get" it, something to play with and feel good about "solving". It is exactly the same as a game that is made to be learned and overcome. It's not profound or special or some magical elevating thing, it's a fun thing made to entertain.
The fact that my point is that if you're not just writing slop to entertain people and actually have a point you want to make you should make sure it's included clearly, bluntly, and textually within the work instead of hiding it away and leaving it up to the audience to interpret their own answers to because otherwise it won't be understood and you leave it open for anyone to just make shit up about it, and I have stated this clearly, bluntly, and in plain text in a very redundant way, and yet several people have failed to understand this and just made up their own meaning to respond to really just proves me right. Even saying your point in the plainest, clearest language you can will still have people miss or ignore it in favor of what they want to imagine, and it's even worse when you leave it ambiguous or make it purely symbolic.
You see, I never said to shun it. I said it's a fun little thing you include to fill out and reinforce your point, but that it can never be the exclusive medium through which you make that point. It's there to make your reader feel clever for getting it, it shouldn't be something gatekeeping comprehension of the work or the receipt of your message.
While that is indeed a very low bar to clear it's also very much not a profound or special collection of trivia to reference. It's a bunch of anticommunist slop and not particularly good old novels with stilted, archaic prose and overly simple language.
There's also the fact that the core of literary analysis in school is making up whatever the fuck you feel like and arguing it like it's a math proof except you also get to make up the rules. So long as you know a few cultural touchstones and are educated enough to spot references you can just say shit means whatever you want and because there's no real textual answer you're right. Which brings us back around to the key point of "if you have something you want a work to say, you really need to make it textual instead of just hoping someone will solve the work like a fun little puzzle and arrive at the conclusion you want, and only after you have done that can you mix in the clever fun stuff to make the consumers feel smart as a treat".
only a sith deals in absolutes (lol sorry).
i think your point is view is interesting: but consider this perspective: ain't no such thing as communication without subtext. no point of view, no opinion may be stated bluntly enough to remove it. for you've delivered subtext within your stated dislike of its use.
argue in a style that doesn't imply you feel your opinion is a fact, unless blithely mistaking opinions for facts and then getting into online mudfights is fun for you
I've called it fun and a treat that fills out a work, while railing specifically against the practice of replacing clear, explicit meaning with it, at least insofar as a work is supposed to convey some big point or theme.
Does that really sound like dislike to you? The only thing I really hate is pieces that are nothing but symbolism and which have no real truth to them, and which are being treated like being obtuse and inaccessible is something profound and elevating.
it sounds like arrogance actually. i won't be interacting further with you
by characterizing it as various vapid games, puzzles and 'treats' instead of a valid tool. by insisting that it can only be implemented after things are asserted in the plain way you emphasize.
Me, repeatedly: "This is something fun, a treat to fill out and reinforce your point, that cannot replace your point and should not be used to hide it away and make your message ambiguous."
Other people, somehow: "So what you're saying is
?"
Me: "No, [repeats what I just said]"
Other people, still not getting it: "So fun is bad, and we're bad?"