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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by jedi@lemm.ee to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

Hey, so I believe in a higher power but I'm not on board with any particular religion. Anyone else think it's cool to just fly solo as a good human, no religion attached?

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[-] MelodiousFunk@kbin.social 44 points 10 months ago

Anyone else think it’s cool to just fly solo as a good human, no religion attached?

Religion does not have a monopoly on morality, despite what many preach. Be kind, and believe what you want.

[-] modeler@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

It might be useful to consider Leibnitz's take on the Euthyphro Dilemma

"is good and just because God wills it or whether God wills it because it is good and just".

Considering that, it is clear that morals cannot come from religion

[-] rhacer@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago

I'm an evangelist's kid. I grew up surrounded by religion. When I got to my 30s I started reevaluating matters of faith. Now in my 60s I consider that journey complete. On "good" days I'm agnostic, on "bad" days an atheist.

I know many awesome people of faith. I know many hideous people of faith. I know many awesome nonbelievers, I know meant hideous nonbelievers.

Be a decent human being and very few people will care what you believe.

[-] jedi@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago

I'm not exactly an atheist but sometimes agnostic. I believe in higher power but I don't believe in divine intervention.

[-] TheOctonaut@mander.xyz 3 points 10 months ago

Can I ask, in the friendliest way possible and purely for my curiosity so I really don't expect an answer, how you balance "higher power" with "doesn't use it"? The way you've described it could be interrupted as anything from an otherwise traditional Christian who doesn't believe in directly answered prayers, to believing that this is some sort of simulation we will wake up from.

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[-] Fal@yiffit.net 5 points 10 months ago

Agnostic and atheist aren't mutually exclusive things. 99.9% of atheists are agnostic about there being a god because it's unprovable. Same way you're likely agnostic about Russell's teapot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

[-] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 23 points 10 months ago

Sounds kinda like deists. Most of the founding fathers were, plus a lot of enlightenment thinkers. So you're in good company.

[-] dhhyfddehhfyy4673@fedia.io 17 points 10 months ago
[-] mondo_brondo@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

I would say it’s cooler to be a good person for the sake of it rather than being a good person because you fear hell or desire some sort of reward (eternity in heaven).

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[-] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

My thoughts are that your question is not so much about belief as about tribe. Since you seem to care about your group identity, why not support a sports team instead? It creates fewer problems than religion.

[-] moistclump@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

Vancouver Cancuks begs to differ. Still less problems than religion though.

Honestly anything in community or with people. Concerts, hobbies, helping, travelling. You don’t need religion to find and connect with tribe and humanity.

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[-] GONADS125@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

Independent religious beliefs outside the confines of religious establishments tend to be healthier, and you're then free of the corruption and manipulation that inherently permeates all religions, due to our inherently flawed human nature.

Religious establishments are very much human inventions. Even if claims within religious canons are true, the religion and texts are all interpretations by deeply flawed human beings, and the rituals practiced were invented by them.

Religion can be used to manipulate and control, and there are individuals who will exploit it for their own self-interests within every religion.

Other than the supportive community that follows some religious institutions, I wholeheartedly believe that people are better off inwardly reflecting on their beliefs, rather than being told what to believe by deeply flawed and easily corruptible authority figures.

Their beliefs are no more demonstratably true than your personal spiritual beliefs.

I'm personally an atheist, but I'm not an anti-theist, and I am a huge advocate of specifically what you're asking about. People should reflect on and develop their own independent spiritual beliefs.

[-] jedi@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

I strongly agree that religious establishments are creations of humans. Even if the claims within religious canons are true, the religion and texts are all interpretations by flawed human beings, and the rituals practiced were invented by them. Growing up in a religious family, I understand how easy it is to be indoctrinated into a certain faith. I believe that early exposure to religion can have a corrupting effect on our minds.

[-] Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 10 points 10 months ago

I very much doubt you'll find anyone here who discourages you from stepping away from organized religion.

I'm a former Christian pastor on a hiatus from church life, but in no way done with being a Christian in my private life.

I believe the Bible boils religion down to three basic life roles for every individual person to follow: priest, steward, and keeper.

  1. As a priest, every person is meant to determine how they ought best to live.
  2. As steward they are to take care of the world around them in accordance with their beliefs.
  3. As their "brother's keeper" they should work to ensure everyone else is free from coercion to believe and live how they think is best.

When people function in all three roles they are revealing the "image of God".

Live your best life and help others do the same to the best of your ability. Or, as James the brother of Jesus, said, true religion is this: "to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

[-] jedi@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago

I was raised in a very religious family. It's very hard to break free but I have decided to go on my own path.

[-] Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 3 points 10 months ago

I trust you'll find it a healing process. Most importantly, be patient with yourself.

[-] jedi@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

What do you mean by healing process?

[-] Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 8 points 10 months ago

According to my perspective, having autonomy is core to being human and most religious structures actively work to squash autonomy and force conformity. I think that is harmful for everyone.

For me, it's taken time to even recognize how hurt I was and I'm still going through a healing process.

[-] jedi@lemm.ee 7 points 10 months ago
[-] Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 months ago

Thank you, the same to you as well.

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[-] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 10 points 10 months ago

Whatever floats your boat, mate. Having a religion is not a bad thing per se. It's only bad if you try to use it to control other peoples' lives.

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 9 points 10 months ago

I don't see anything wrong with having faith in a higher power. Plenty of higher powers exist. Like the sun, quasars, super massive black holes, etc.

[-] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 months ago

What you are describing sounds like Deism, which is a philosophy that most of the framers of the US Constitution shared

[-] jedi@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

Deism is a great reference. It's awesome tho think that some leaders and thinkers from the past also shared similar ideas. The idea of a higher power that doesn’t meddle in the day-to-day but set the universe in motion definitely resonates with my thoughts. It's like being part of a grand design, but having the freedom to navigate it in our own unique ways. It's always enlightening to link personal beliefs with historical philosophies. Makes you feel part of a bigger conversation, doesn't it?

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[-] palarith@aussie.zone 7 points 10 months ago
[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 7 points 10 months ago

Well let me ask you this: how specifically would it not be okay?

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[-] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

A higher power without religion

Yeah, that sounds fine to me. I think the movie Dogma spells that position out pretty well: organized beliefs lead to all kinds of messy stuff, it's better to just have ideas.

And personally I think humans seem to be wired to want religion. I think it stems from how we're social creatures and we just desperately want to be part of something. And some of the most pervading religions have been the ones that include a father figure in their belief structure; I don't think that's a coincidence either, I think nearly everyone wants someone to follow, someone to tell them what to do, and parents don't last forever.

All that is to say, religion or at least spirituality seems to be something people naturally yearn for. And given that, there's no shame in feeling that yearning.

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[-] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Organized religion is corruptible to the point of uselessness.

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[-] OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works 5 points 10 months ago

I feel pretty neutral about it. It seems like a pretty harmless approach to faith.

[-] KermitLeFrog@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

That's basically agnosticism. And it's pretty common among intellectuals, historically speaking at least

[-] Sludgeyy@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

It's an Agnostic Theist (Don't claim the knowledge but have the belief).

Rather than an Agnostic Atheist (Don't claim the knowledge but don't have the belief)

Gnostic Theist (Claim the knowledge and have the belief)

And

Gnostic Atheist (Claim the knowledge but don't have the belief)

Are the other two

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[-] SatanicNotMessianic@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago

I’m a strong atheist, which means I have a positive belief that no gods exist, just for the record. The way I would put it is that I have never heard of nor have been able to come up with a god concept that I believe is an actual being.

I prefer to use the term “god concept” rather than god to make it clear that we’re talking about a specific idea of a god rather than an actual being. So Odin is a god concept, as is Minerva. Multiple god concepts exist in the bible, including the original regional father-deity El, El’s wife Ashera, their children including Yahweh, and so on. When the Israelites started to move from polytheism to henotheism (many gods exist but you should only worship one), and then to “monotheism” (in scare quotes because there are enough different god concepts as well as divine beings who would be counted as gods in any other pantheon).

In any case, I don’t think having a god concept which you believe refers to an actual being in itself is an indication of anything, good or bad. In my opinion, there’s a feedback loop between the disposition of people and their religions. The problems come in when the religions around the god concepts become extreme. The Amish have a fairly strong god concept, and while I’m not Amish (thank god), I don’t think they do harm unless you think of their actions within their community. 90% of UUs are great people. Sponoza’s Watchmaker would suggest we have to study ourselves to discover what constitutes good. And so on.

So I’d say that your belief is absolutely fine, but you also might be interested in the neurophysiological, social, and anthropological bases of humans so often having god concepts.

[-] 31415926535@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

Yes. Had religion shoved down my throat as a kid. Learned early on being a religious believer meant nothing, people are shitty no matter what.

Had to decide who I wanted to be, what rules to live by. Realized I don't enjoy hurting people, try to learn from mistakes, random acts of kindness, to always try for the evolved, educated non violent option. That's enough for me. If there's a god who has a problem with that, oh well.

[-] shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

So in other words non-denominational? My denomination is so specific yet unspecifically connected to anything that you approximately described me as well. Without a doubt this can be said to be one of the driving forces of what we all talked about here. Jesus himself said the expression of love did not matter, it's the love that counts.

[-] SatanicNotMessianic@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

In my experience, at least in the US, non-denominational when associated with an institution generally means “Christian” but not affiliated with a sect. They’re (typically) still quite Christian, and the phrase can be and is applied to churches ranging from the ones flying Pride flags and declaring that they’re open to everyone to ones like Westboro - some of the most radical Christian churches are non-denominational because their views are too conservative for even the more conservative right wing religions.

The phrase itself is an organizational status and does not indicate what kinds of beliefs a person has. It’s not unlike someone describing themselves as “politically independent.” You don’t know if they’re Greenpeace types, libertarians, or far right of the republicans.

Edit: The usual term in the US for what I think you’re describing is “Spiritual, but not religious.” That’s the way it’s usually written in census and survey forms.

[-] shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

If that's what that is, what term would you use for someone whose conclusions are more unspecific than even can be categorized under the "Christian" umbrella?

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[-] Jhogenbaum@leminal.space 3 points 10 months ago

Yep yep yep! You're doin great. Keep it up hu-man

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[-] RagnarokOnline@reddthat.com 3 points 10 months ago

Many people follow that path.

[-] Ludrol@szmer.info 3 points 10 months ago

Christian church is made of people. And people are sinful and evil.

Religion doesn't come from what other people tell you is truth, but from your experience. What experience have you lead you to believe in higher power?

I have experienced Luck so good and so significant in my life that I can only exlain it by intervention of higher power. But maybe you didn't experienced something like that, and I can understand that.

Religion comes from within, and not from external sources.

[-] jaamesbaxterr@lemmy.ninja 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I mostly agree but I would argue that spirituality comes from within, while religion comes from external sources. Religion is just other people's packaged version of spirituality/faith.

[-] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

What purpose does the belief part cover?

In my experience, this usually fills in for something that people need to be true.

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[-] Zippit@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

It's cool. I come from a religious background that I questioned all the time, even when my family focused only on teaching us the wholesome beautiful stuff, it's still hard to be on board with the rest or how other people interpret it.

So I've decided to quit. It's still hard, but I do still believe in a higher power. All the rest... I don't think God cares about head scarves or sex or alcohol,... Just live your life the way you want to and you'll be okay.

[-] ki77erb@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

This is kind of where I'm at in life at 40. I grew up in the Christian church but as an adult, I see so much hate, intolerance, oppression and exploitation. I'm a lover of science to my core and I also believe in a higher power. I just choose to keep that mostly to myself in my day-to-day life.

[-] Zippit@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

Same, 44, but Muslim background :) I don't know why but your view makes me so happy, like I'm not the only one... Let's just live our lives in peace and I agree. We have to figure out who we are and what we stand for as a 'human' without interference, so keeping that to ourselves (offline) makes it easier in this timeline. Let's figure it out first and then we can go from there.

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[-] Quazatron@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Sound like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudeism .

You might as well abide. Or not.

[-] WarmSoda@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I think you're describing agnostic beliefs, believing there might be a god but not conforming to any religion and basically otherwise being an atheist.

(Not too be confused with Gnostic beliefs, which was a branch of Christianity)

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this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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