this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2025
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This post was originally a link of my saved video of this TikTok (CW: gross body-shaming, mean, misinformation) diss track that I deleted. I apologize for overlooking the ugliness of this content, and I don't condone most of what was said in the video, only certain elements I agreed with. I appreciate the criticism and feedback.

I'll keep this up in this state because I believe there is some worthwhile discussion here. If the mods want me to delete this or remove the TikTok link for reference, I am willing to do so.

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[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

"This white guy is appropriating a black genre!" sing-sneers white guy in the same genre. This is the left-lib equivalent of when Steven Segal says "get your white ass out of here," and even for "folk artist semi-musically ranting" this is bizarrely unmusical.

Isn't he obviously terrible at music?

lmao glass houses and stones.

I've never heard a black person say his name

Oh, well if you haven't . . .

White people are so behind / it doesn't matter if we cosplay as Bob Dylan /. . . we'll still fail to understand that the problem in these conversations and this music is us

Jesus Christ, dude, then put down your fucking guitar if that's how it is! That way you don't need to culturally appropriate from the pinnacle of Afro-Appalachian art and only folk musician you mention besides yourself and Welles, Bob fucking Dylan. So much for being appreciative of it being black music when you can't even be fucking bothered to list a black artist in this repetitive rant that's supposedly about appropriating from black artists. He's just doing a land acknowledgement on land that he has no intention of returning, but so long as he's self-disparaging about being white he can keep doing the same shit that he uses as a paper-thin excuse to attack others.

Don't get me wrong, I was pissed about the Kirk song and it dramatically lowered my opinion of Welles, but this is so embarrassing that it's hard to watch. Also, the assassin almost certainly wasn't a fascist and that clearly was not the motivation for the killing unless the whole existing narrative is a conspiracy, but it should be unsurprising that someone with such an opportunistic attitude toward politics would cling to the version of the story he most prefers. "But this was published when that was less known," then he shouldn't be making claims about it and you probably shouldn't be reposting something with overt misinformation.

Anyway, fuck Welles and fuck this guy.

[–] Imnecomrade@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I see what you are saying. Should I delete this post? I believe I overlooked a lot of the ugliness and hypocrisy of this video. I don't mean to spread misinformation, there were just some elements of this video I agreed with, but most of it is just name calling and not very constructive.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Do whatever you like or ask a mod. I must admit that the "shouldn't be reposting" part was mostly a snipe at whatever might be offered to defend his mischaracterization of the shooting, I don't personally feel strongly at all about you posting this so much as I just hate the "song" in itself. If I was you and just realized what I posted I would have taken it down purely based on the "I'm a white folk artist and I say you're bad for being a white folk artist" element, let alone the rest of it, but if you think there's any kind of worthwhile conversation to be had (even one you didn't intend) then I think keeping it up with that caveat is perfectly defensible. I'm not sure what the mods think, though my bet is they'll delete it for body-shaming.

I was so caught up in his absurd rhetoric on race that I totally forgot about the start where he was basically just calling Welles a manlet, which paired with the white folk artist thing makes me think this dude just hates himself and is projecting his insecurities onto Welles (besides the crying for Kirk thing, which again is a totally valid criticism). It makes me wonder what he self-censored at the end to merely be about not having the muscles to pander to the right. I wish outspoken critics of Welles wouldn't be such embarrassments to the elements of substantial criticism they present.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago

Yeah the race angle of this is really cringe. Like, we're all leftists here, we should have a cursory understanding of the ways black culture has been appropriated, not exactly a prescient critique. Self loathing might be it. "I might not be as talented as welles but at least im not a lib!!" Is the energy this is giving off.

I'll maintain that welles presents a foot in the door for conversation at best. We'll see if that changes.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

He shot up and did numbers and then he libbed right the fuck out.

[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 9 points 3 months ago

many such cases

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Lol this video makes me laugh and is frankly having the opposite effect on me. Like, what should I even take away from this video? Should I walk away going "aw shucks my music choice didn't fully align with the ideological underpinnings of my world view and now I have to pray at the alter of Marx and say 5 wages, price and profit to repent".

Welles is still very talented. Songs like Walmart, Philanthropist, United Health, Whistle Boeing, or War Isn't Murder are still great songs. It's not shocking he's a lib. Most people are libs.

I'd rather just enjoy the guys music then give a shit if he's a lib. I'll take an antiwar lib over a pro war lib in these fucking dog shit times.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Songs like the one he posted immediately after the Trump shooting are actively harmful though. It boiled down to "we shouldn't shoot fascists we should debate them".

I'm not against the idea that he could get better though. He didn't oppose the Luigi shooting so there's a significant change in his rhetoric between the Trump shooting and the Luigi one. I believe that shooting was an extremely significant turning point in changing people's views on whether political violence should be used or not. Yeah ok the shooting may not have actually changed healthcare but the entire population went from "noooo don't shoot Trump" to "hahaha shooting people is good actually" which is a very very important prerequisite that needs to be met for revolution.

But yeah then he does this Charlie Kirk shit and the Rogan shit and it's obvious he's just not going to improve.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

If anything he's definitely slid backwards since the United Health song for sure. I think he really believes the shit he said in that kirk song, but I don't think that's "harmful", people already felt that way and some subsection of the population will always feel that way.

But if someone was to bring him up in conversation, that's a good opportunity to ease into talking commie shit because there is still a good chance people also enjoy his anti capitalist vibes.

We'll see how things develope. There is a clear division in his work between "fuck rich people" and "why can't we be friends", which is a good dichotomy to discuss with libs.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago

There is a clear division in his work between "fuck rich people" and "why can't we be friends",

The "fuck rich people" part will get smaller and smaller the bigger he gets as he transforms into a liberal grifter and is influenced by them.

[–] Imnecomrade@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

I'm starting to believe his music is harmful, though. He basically brings every issue down to its lowest common denominator and turns it into "killing bad, let's all--fascists, libs, and commies--get along". He even both sides the Israeli genocide in one of his later songs. His commenters and fans still continue to uplift him and treat him like some wise man hero.

I'm not denying Welles is talented nor am I saying you shouldn't listen to him. I just believe he cares more about his career than to actually create songs that involve critical thinking, nuance, and understanding of materialism.

[–] CommunistBear@hexbear.net 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

The second I heard him say that Yahya Sinar worshipped death and that's why he fought, I knew he was a fucking lib. I made a comment about him in a megathread a few months ago because it legitimately annoyed me

That's vile. Had he not already been cancelled in my mind that would have been the moment I cancelled him.

[–] WeedReference420@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago

Yahya Sinar worshipped death and that's why he fought

kombucha-disgust

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Sure that's a more substantive critique then this video presents. This video wreaks of terminally online smarmy "fell for it" energy. Do some people just enjoy laying in the grass waiting to pounce on subjects like this? Also, the first half of this video is strictly going after Welles appearance? Let's be real, this is a pretty poor delivery mechanism for the message.

I don't want to just be a shitter here, and I feel that I am doing that. What I'll say is, A) yeah the guy wants to make money B) Yeah he's a coward for putting out that weak ass kirk song C) his "message" (if he even has a coherent one) is still worth supporting if only because its like a foot in the door. You can use it as a means of bonding and relating to people who could be moved to the left of his perspective.

Developments like the popularity of Welles should be viewed as an opportunity. Instead it would seem some people would rather use these developments as a cudgel to bonk over the heads of people growing in class conciseness.

[–] Imnecomrade@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Maybe I should have created a written discussion topic than linking this video.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago

Hey it's all good. Discussion is happening! Diss tracks are real hit or miss. The track might not be hitting for me but the conversation is!

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I wrote something very long but it didn't pass my quality check so all I'll say from the salvaged dregs is:

  • tycmusic was really annoying, full support to purpleworm's criticisms and I'll add: "X music is black music" does not even mean only black people should do it! It's a structural criticism of racist structures leaving black musicians impoverished and oppressed while rewarding white musicians for their shitty knockoffs of the original music that they pass off as their own! It's not generally a criticism of individuals, it's a criticism of a racist structure and system

  • Jesse Welles is a liberal and that is annoying and leads him to sometimes be right for the wrong reasons, right for ok reasons, wrong for the right reasons, or wrong for the wrong reasons. That is every combination of conclusion and reason which makes it useless, but the fact that he's so inconsistent is the problem. Makes it hard for me to engage others about his work productively. I see a friend post a song of his and what am I going to do, listen to a song I can't stand musically in order to then write a 5 paragraph essay about how the themes in the song are mostly good but this one line ruins the whole thing by misrepresenting the entire topic every single time he drops a new song?

  • I couldn't find the exact citation for CommunistBear's comment but if Welles maligned a brave and noble freedom fighter who died valiantly in battle against genocidal fascists as someone who just "worshipped death"... I find that really inexcusable. That's the problem with his politics, liberalism, in a nutshell. Doesn't mean I think he's evil, but it's an example of this sort of surface-level vibes-based politics being worthless, pointless, liberals preaching to the choir and trying to take more radical ideas and water them down to be palatable and nonthreatening.

  • I agree with your actual written out criticisms and you put it better than I was able to.

  • Since liberals are out there listening to him, probably the best we can do is try to use it as an opportunity to try to get them to see the contradictions in his analysis and move left instead. I mean he's going to stay where he is, but this isn't about him, it's about the people who find his message and timing resonates with them and then give them better answers than he can. It's not even he who's spreading these messages, it is Liberalism, and he is simply channeling those ideas into an accessible musical package for people.

[–] Imnecomrade@hexbear.net 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I fully agree on your points and appreciate your support.

I couldn't find the exact citation for CommunistBear's comment but if Welles maligned a brave and noble freedom fighter who died valiantly in battle against genocidal fascists as someone who just "worshipped death"... I find that really inexcusable. That's the problem with his politics, liberalism, in a nutshell. Doesn't mean I think he's evil, but it's an example of this sort of surface-level vibes-based politics being worthless, pointless, liberals preaching to the choir and trying to take more radical ideas and water them down to be palatable and nonthreatening.

https://hexbear.net/comment/6387700

And the song being referred to is War is a God, iirc.

Another song I was referring to where he both sides the Israeli genocide is Dead Diplomats.

Wow, I looked up the lyrics to those.

Yeah I didn't like his music anyway but this surface level analysis is terrible. I will admit he has a talent for using words to write evocative words and frame some things in a poignant lift, but that's a problem when paired with such bad analysis.