this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2025
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The 30-year mortgage rate shot up the day after the Federal Reserve cut interest rates.

Hours after the Federal Reserve cut its benchmark interest rate on Wednesday by 25 basis points, mortgage rates ticked up 9 basis points.

...

The Fed announced Wednesday that it would trim its key policy rate by a quarter of a percentage point, bringing it to the range of 4% to 4.25%. Around the time of the announcement, Mortgage News Daily, a website that posts daily updates on rates, crashed - possibly the result of people flocking to the site to see how mortgage rates reacted. The company told MarketWatch it was looking into why the site was down that afternoon.

Mortgage News Daily later reported that the 30-year rate went up by 9 basis points (0.09%) to 6.22% on Wednesday. On Thursday, it reported that the 30-year rate had gone up by 15 more basis points, to 6.37%.

In contrast, a report by Freddie Mac measuring weekly averages for the 30-year rate found that mortgage rates fell to the lowest level in 12 months on Thursday. That's because Freddie Mac's report gathered information prior to and after the Fed's decision was announced. The weekly report doesn't survey lenders, but is based on actual mortgage applications to lenders across the country that are sent to Freddie Mac.

...

Mortgage rates aren't tied to the Fed's interest-rate moves. Instead, they typically fall in advance of a Fed rate cut, as MarketWatch has reported, because bond investors are trying to anticipate where the central bank will go. Mortgage rates are priced off the 10-year Treasury note BX:TMUBMUSD10Y by adding a spread.

Hence, the 10-year Treasury yield is a better gauge of how mortgage rates will move - and the 10-year yield was trending higher Thursday.

Mortgage rates have decoupled from the Fed's benchmark / targets, basically, because fiscal policy and the overall economic outlook are so bad that traditional monetary policy is no longer effective.

This is generally what economists would call 'a bad sign'.

Myself, I would go so far as 'a very bad sign.'

My condolences to anyone who confused their local new/used home salesperson with a qualified economist, if they told you, and you believed, something like 'Fed rate cuts will lower mortgage rates!"

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[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Time to flip the monopoly board

[–] someacnt@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is this one of the 100 crash predictions among 10 actual crashes?

[–] salacious_coaster@infosec.pub 147 points 2 days ago (11 children)

Cheaper borrowing for billionaires and corporations, and more expensive housing for everyone else. What a time to be alive

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 67 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

This also means that home prices, their actual prices, have to go down, if they actually want to sell.

But, the market could remain half frozen, as it roughly has been for a while.

I saw another report, I wouldn't be able to post it as a news article because it isn't a news article... basically, in the last month, something like 50% of houses that get pulled off market (delisted) are being pulled off by incredulous boomers who can't believe that no one can afford to buy their house at the price that 'they think its worth'.

So... yeah, basically, the Boomers get to enjoy a housing crash right as its time for them to retire and downsize, after spending the last ~20 years making it near impossible for anyone currently under 40 to be able to afford a home.

Great work, thanks everyone.

Wave bye bye to your 'oh, we'll leave you the house' inheritance.

Yeah the uh... median new home buyer age is now like... 38.

It was 28, in the 1980s.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 25 points 2 days ago (1 children)

People who own a home will adjust the prices to try and sell them. Not willingly, and not quickly, but if they have to change they'll take a hit. Who won't sell are all the corporations that bought up everything when it was a hot market going up. They can afford to sit on an unoccupied house for a long time waiting to at least recapture the investment they made.

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 35 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You have it backwards.

Private Equity Firms who basically bought houses to speculate with, planning on selling them to a family?

They already did a bunch of price cuts in the last quarter or two.

They arguably kicked this all off from 'things don't look so good' to 'oh fuck, blaring klaxons and red lights'.

Why?

Because they borrowed the money to buy the houses with, using access to credit sources 'families' don't have.

They're also a lot better at data analysis than 'families'.

Basically, its the stock market 'smart money vs dumb money' dynamic.

They cut prices first because they know a small loss is better than a large loss.

'Families' tend to not understand that.

The other thing thats fun is ... PE just converted a lot of those homes they would not be able to sell at the price they wanted... to rentals! For whole families!

Yay cashflow!

This (and other things) is actually already starting to slowly drive down rental rates for apartments and such in areas where they did that more heavily.

Uh but yeah, sorry, you got it backwards, PE firms have bigger pockets and can do math objectively better than most families: A slight ding to ROI is better than a massive one.

With families, its more of a personal existential crisis situation, with PE, its literally their dayjob.

Yeah, nobody in the 'current quarter profits are all that matters' world is gonna sit on a house for a decade in hopes of an eventual return, taking losses for that whole decade on those properties in the mean time.

[–] iopq@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

No, the 10 year moved up, so billionaires wanting a ten year loan would have too pay more, just like everyone else.

The rate cut only affects the short term loans

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[–] Triumph@fedia.io 39 points 2 days ago (18 children)

Feels like a big "the economy is about to collapse" red flag.

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 44 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I would say 'is currently collapsing' indicator.

You know, along with the uh, 'oops, we overcounted job gains in the last year by about a million, teehee'... thing.

[–] Laser@feddit.org 5 points 1 day ago

Also a lot of these jobs aren't what you'd previously think of, which contributed to the miscalculation in the first place. Previously, from my understanding, the BLS assumed a company would eventually hire X people, based on previous averages. However, a lot of new companies are just self-employed gig-economy workers who won't hire.

Anyhow, I'm European, so my insight into that market is somewhat limited. But the signs are there: more consumers defaulting on debt, resulting in stuff like car repos... It's no coincidence BNPL for small purchases is booming. And with it, so are defaults on them.

This is why I'm so surprised European leaders are so keen on keeping tariffs low, I expect US sales to plummet significantly, especially for goods from Europe as these are typically either essential anyways, or optional and even without tariffs expensive enough to not be purchased during recession. I mean yeah it's not black and white but you get the point.

The US is in a position that can't be fixed by monetary policy, lower rates and you create jobs (though in my opinion, most of that money vanishes into speculation nowadays), but then inflation goes up, which continues to be an issue; or do the opposite with opposite effects (jobs go down, inflation slows). I think the latter combined with social programs to soften the blow would be the way to go, but the US has voted for bootstraps instead of helping anyone but the richest.

I suspect this will be worse than 2008, again with a lot of sub prime debt that has been accrued and can no longer be repaid. Just this time, all the substance is gone.

[–] iopq@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Actually, long term rates being higher than short term rates is a healthy curve. An inverted curve is the leading recession indicator

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Roughly copy pasting part of my reply to another version of this thread elsewhere:

You must have missed the last 2 or 3 years where the yield curve has been inverted, then univerted, then inverted again, and at least by the way I count it, inverted and univerted a 3rd time.

Recessions tend to happen rather rapidly when the yield curve uninverts.

Not usually during the inversion period.

Roughly, think of the curve inversion period being when a whole bunch of investments are being moved around in the background (uncertainty), and then roughly when the curve uninverts, well now the money has placed its bets on what is going to happen, which sectors will trend down and which will be safe havens (certainty).

So, we are now in the certainty phase, we will certainly have a broad recession (I'd argue it'll be a 2nd Great Depression), following the longest period of yield curve nonsense in recorded history.

To summarize:

The yield curve inverting is your indicator that trouble is brewing.

The downturn happens as or right after the yield curve uninverts.

We are currently in the 'yield curve has just uninverted' timeframe, following the greatest yield curve inversion, in magnitude and duration, that has ever been seen in the US.

[–] Hyaline_Cat@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hmmm, yeah you're right. This current inversion looks a little more severe than the previous two.

It's probably fine, right? /s

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

He's only slightly dead.

Moderately deceased.

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[–] Cort@lemmy.world 21 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Fed rate is only going down due to pressure from trump. Should be going upward following all the inflation caused by Trump's tariffs.

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 2 days ago

Its ok, not like we need any other countries to buy our debt or anything.

Oh.

Right.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 7 points 2 days ago

unemployment is another of their considerations.

[–] PattyMcB@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Thanks fuckfaces. As a veteran trying to keep my family in my home, this doesn't help in the current economy.

(No, I didn't ask for the fucking leopards)

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 1 day ago

Do you have an ARM? Or are you talking about dollar value, or?

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This is generally what economists would call 'a bad sign'.

Bad sign you say, time to cancel Jon Stewart!

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Or just fire everyone at the BLS and make up all the numbers going forward.

Trump is also trying to make it some companies on the stock market move from monthly reporting requirements... to quarterly.

So... lol.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Depression when? FDR2 can't come soon enough.

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Depression is now, FDR2 is ... probably not gonna happen.

We did not get Bernie in 2016, that would have been the last possible historical moment to stand a chance at avoiding the trajectory we have been on for the last decade, and now basically cannot escape from its inertia.

We are follwing the Nazi Germany political track from the 30s, not the US political track from the 30s.

We will probably be invading Canada and/or Mexico within 6 years, as an extension to that metaphor / framework.

[–] affenlehrer@feddit.org 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yep, broadly agree there.

There is a massive disconnect between finance and economics, and the people running things are very, very finance minded.

Ove-financialization, historically, is a very good indicator that a complex society is no longer able to generate enough real economic growth to keep up with expectations, and is in danger of a collapse...

... and that actually works, that relationship holds quite far back into human history, literally pre-capitalism, goes back hundreds, thousands of years.

Sadly, we do not appear to learn too much from our own history.

[–] Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 days ago

People don’t seem to understand mortgage rates. Fixed rate mortgages are based on the bond market, variable rate mortgages are based on the banks overnight rates, which are based on the Fed rate.

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