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Musk wanted to use Tesla cameras to spy on drivers and win autopilot lawsuits (electrek.co)

submitted 11 months ago by DevCat@lemmy.world to c/evs@lemmy.world

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Elon Musk pushed to use Tesla’s internal driver monitoring camera to record video of drivers’ behavior, primarily for Tesla to use this video as evidence to defend itself from investigations in the event of a crash, according to Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the Tesla CEO.

Walter Isaacson’s biography of Elon Musk is out, resulting in several revelations about Tesla’s past, present, and future. One of these revelations is a potential use for the Tesla internal driver monitoring camera that is included on current Teslas.

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[-] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 47 points 11 months ago

Yeah, this is going to be a issue for most if not all driver assisted cars I think. GM's hand's free system uses eye tracking cameras for their system and I have no doubt they're probably also going to push for these kinds of reviews in their crashes too, all recalls and scandals considered.

The laws need to catch up with the tech sooner rather than later here.

[-] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Can your 4th and/or 5th amendment rights be extended to your car? To your AI assistant?

[-] extant@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

When you buy a car it's spelled out in the privacy policy that they are absolutely collecting data and using it for X Y purpose and sharing it with their partners. Mozilla did an article on the policies and one of them even flat out said they are collecting data about having sex in the car. Edit: Sorry my point was going to be that when you purchase a car you are agreeing to this and if you disagree you don't purchase it. So there is no protection because we've consented and personal data is too profitable wo American oligarchs won't let those laws change.

[-] what_is_a_name@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

I think that is why Ford’s Blue Cruise that uses IR sensors like iPhone’s Face ID You s the better way to go.

But ultimately al L this tech can be misused. And will be misused.

[-] klangcola@reddthat.com 25 points 11 months ago

Teslas have internal driver monitoring cameras? :O

[-] Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 39 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

According to the article, they have since 2017 but they've been disabled/unused until 2021.

Tesla used to rely entirely on a torque sensor in the steering wheel to determine if you're still paying attention; now they use the camera to monitor you too.

Supposedly this doesn't leave the car unless you've opted in to allow it, but given the Customer footage lawsuit Tesla is currently dealing with, I wouldn't trust that to be true.

[-] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago

I imagine there is a process to get hold of this footage from an individual vehicle following a crash? Especially when a lawsuit is confirmed.

[-] geekworking@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

A little piece of electrical tape solves this.

[-] Garbanzo@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

Not if you want to keep using the self driving features you paid out the ass for

[-] extant@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

Months ago back on reddit in the justrolledintotheshop subreddit someone posted a picture where the owner of the car put tape over the internal camera of their vehicle which was not a Tesla but the car refused to start because it couldn't see the driver.

[+] money_loo@lemmy.world -37 points 11 months ago

Good for him. People lie all the damn time, and all I want to know is who is actually at fault, the car or the idiot driver.

[-] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago

Yes because there is no possible way or incentive to abuse such a technology.

[+] money_loo@lemmy.world -23 points 11 months ago

Like how?

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 32 points 11 months ago

Aside from invasion of privacy, potential for blackmail, letting your car testify against you, fraudulent time stamps/metadata, modified video ….. how about the simple case where proving you didn’t have hands on the wheel should not let the manufacturer off the hook of the car was faulty. Letting them spy on you just lets them shift the lawsuit from whether they’re at fault to whether you c plied with the fine print, from whether the car effed up, to arguing about your mannerisms

[+] money_loo@lemmy.world -8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Hyperbole.

The spying thing would go nowhere fast and get them sued into oblivion.

how about the simple case where proving you didn’t have hands on the wheel should not let the manufacturer off the hook of the car was faulty

How would proving a person lied and the car was not at fault be letting the manufacturer off the hook? Are you seriously saying you’d rather all of the technology get stifled and stunted just because one person lied and created a media storm of bullshit?

All of human progress on this would get shut down and sent back to the dark ages just because you didn’t want a company to reveal the truth.

Yeah, no thanks. People can’t be trusted so I say this as a Tesla driver and technology lover, “spy” on us as much as you can to find the truth.

*edit, I love how even after all the downvotes nobody could answer the simplest question of how proving someone lied would be letting the manufacturer off the hook. “Well ya see, money, you were able to garner the truth, and I took that personally because TeSLa should always be at fault…for rEaSOns”

Please, try to be less transparent about where your emotional reactions are coming from. 🤣🤪

[-] Maalus@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Lmao "tesla" and "human progress".

Yeah then go ahead and let the car spy on you. Let the country implement good citizen scores while we are at it.

Privacy is a human right, and an internal camera is pointless to the "progress" you are talking about. It's there to catch you out on a technicality to deny a settlement when the "self driving car" cripples you.

[+] money_loo@lemmy.world -6 points 11 months ago

You are not entitled to privacy in public spaces while out and about though, and if you purchase a car with a camera in it then you’re explicitly allowing its usage on you while in said car.

You guys are all, what, like 15 years old or something? Like, holy shit, forget the name of the company for a second and just think reasonably about how any of this stuff works.

[-] Maalus@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Yup, I've thought long and hard how all of this works Works in a very simple way - company is installing cameras in cars to get rid of any semblence of privacy. Shills defend it as "technological progress". People like me laugh at them and will never buy a car they shill for.

[-] money_loo@lemmy.world -4 points 11 months ago

Sounds like the free market at work! Good for you.

[-] Guest_User@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Sounds like you may have had enough internet today

[-] best_username_ever@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

no privacy in public spaces

That’s an American thing and you’re an idiot for accepting this. In Europe we have privacy.

[-] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/

[-] money_loo@lemmy.world -4 points 11 months ago

But between 2019 and 2022, groups of Tesla employees privately shared via an internal messaging system

Oh no!

Anyways…

[-] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

But between 2019 and 2022, groups of Tesla employees privately shared via an internal messaging system sometimes highly invasive videos and images recorded by customers’ car cameras, according to interviews by Reuters with nine former employees.

Some of the recordings caught Tesla customers in embarrassing situations. One ex-employee described a video of a man approaching a vehicle completely naked.

Selectively edit out the parts that completely destroy your argument...stop insulting the community.

[-] money_loo@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago

Selectively edit out the parts that completely destroy your argument...stop insulting the community.

Not highlighting the entire article is probably a sin to you as well. I stopped because those parts aren’t any different, you doofus.

You guys are just making something out of nothing and I will go dance naked around my Tesla, happily.

I would much rather the car catch someone lying that’s trying to slow the progress of a technology that will save so many lives than I would ever care about being a raindrop in an ocean of recordings.

Just wait till you find out about all the other cameras outside recording you, or that thing in your pocket listening to you.

Bring on big brother already, humans have proven over and over again they can’t be trusted with each other, I’d rather be watched and find that lost or kidnapped kid than live in a world where they get raped because you are all like “mUH pRiVACY”.

[-] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

You thought 1984 described utopia didn't you?

The cameras won't be on when YOU need them.

[-] money_loo@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago

Thankfully I don’t give in to reactionary fear mongering, being a normal human being.

But you do you! You do it so well, why stop now?

[-] UlrikHD@programming.dev 7 points 11 months ago

Tesla workers shared ‘intimate’ car camera images, ex-employees allege: ‘Massive invasion of privacy’

[-] IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

You mean the same way Tesla autopilot would deactivate one second before a crash so they could argue in court that it wasn’t active and therefore not responsible. There was legislation proposed to stipulate that a self driving car was at least partially responsible if it was used up to 30 seconds prior to a crash to prevent this dickish behavior from Tesla.

this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023

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