this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2025
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I'm sure I'd be preaching to the choir if I told you that it's time for us to immigrate from übercorp owned social media and services. All of you have done so, so that's not the point of this post. Even though we are on these new platforms, the fediverse is still sensitive to requests from governmental bodies and organizations. Lemmy.zip has already blocked UK users and Lemmy.world will almost certainly do the same. Due to the size of Matrix's biggest homeserver matrix.org, the admins of said homeserver are beginning to follow the OSA and have already raised their minimum age to 18+. And instances who don't follow the Act could be subjected to insurmountable paperwork and even blocked from the UK, Australia and other countries enacting these outrageous laws soon.

Blocking UK users to avoid this is almost a necessity, and as Labour is attempting to get lawmakers to outlaw VPNs, we could be seeing the equivalent of the UK Great Firewall soon. However, it will take significant amounts of time, money and paperwork to outlaw VPNs and to get ISPs to block sites and protocols. This is where federated and open source platforms have an advantage, without being shackled by bureaucracy they are able to quickly adapt. But this is not sustainable, and eventually the UK will become even more overreaching in order to gain more control over people's Internet usage.

Darknets such as Tor, I2P and Yggdrasil are a potential solution, however they have multiple issues. Tor is slow and has a reputation of being used by pedophiles and drug traffickers. I2P is scattered in implementation and cannot handle high load. ~~Yggdrasil is alpha software and requires IPv6, which in many countries is simply not possible to use~~. Whilst these darknets are extremely resistant to censorship from other countries, with the only way to fully dismantle them would be to shutoff all access to the Internet, they still are not capable of handling modern Internet usage.

We might need new completely independent mediums seperate from the Internet to avoid this. Physical bluetooth mesh networks or other technology is an example. Maybe even a new version of dial-up. All I know is that governments will not stop here. I might seem like I'm overreacting here, but we need to be prepared for what is coming.

CORRECTION: I was told by a peer that Yggdrasil peers must have IPv6, however one does not need an IPv6 enabled network to use it, they just need an IPv6 operating system/device, which virtually every modern operating system including Windows and Linux does. Yggdrasil is actually Beta software.

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[–] comfy@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

with the only way to fully dismantle them would be to shutoff all access to the Internet

I don't think this is true. It's a bit complicated because there are ways to obfuscate the traffic, but generally speaking, I'd assume governments could track and block nodes just as easily as you can find them.

Tor is slow

It might trip you up for real-time things like gaming and you might take a while to download HUGE files, but it's much faster than its historical reputation

and has a reputation of being used by pedophiles and drug traffickers

This is true for any privacy software. Encrypted chats, cryptographic currency, darknets. Even the internet itself has that reputation. Anyone trying to hide what they're doing is likely to seek privacy tools. Reputation means nothing.

[–] planish@sh.itjust.works 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Something like Tor only solves half the problem. A Tor hidden service still has physical reality and a person who is hosting it, and who can be held responsible for failing to register the thing with the feds or file a moderation transparency report or whatever the latest nonsense is. The anonymity network helps to hide where the equipment and who the operator is, but there's still a single point of failure and a person to blame for the community.

We need a way to run online communities that are not online services: no single point of failure, no individual or partnership describable as a service's operator, and no meaningful way in which one person provides access to the system to another person.

[–] Misk@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I don't know enough to know whether this is a dumb suggestion - but could web3 / blockchain hold some of the answers?

[–] planish@sh.itjust.works 1 points 23 hours ago

Probably not any existing systems; you can still finger and thus demand censorship from a block producer, and you end up with situations where you just can't host the chain anymore because it's full of pirated MP3s or whatever now.

And they introduce new problems around having to globally replicate everything and thus getting the net performance out of the system that you get from the worst server involved.

If you need to track some kind of root signing key for a whole p2p system, or something, maybe you can stuff it into Ethereum somewhere. But I don't think you can get very far trying to actually run a service out of a globally replicated database, and even then you'd have hundreds of operators in legal trouble rather than no operator.

[–] Misk@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago

The irony of Lemmy not letting me post this until I turned off my VPN 😖

[–] SolarPunker@slrpnk.net 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

In the future new technologies will maybe bypass internet but right now the best thing to do it's to start being less internet dependent: archive stuff for your home server, buy physical media, preserve what you'd need and like.

[–] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 days ago

Or start selfhosting.

[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago

geocaching + memory sticks

From the picture I'm going to say it should be the great wall of politicians. It may take a while but If pile enough of the up and cement them together one way or the other things will improve.

[–] MITM0@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

What about LokiNet ?

[–] nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 107 points 1 week ago (6 children)

We need to start our own Internet with black Jack and hookers.

[–] oce@jlai.lu 42 points 1 week ago

I think he said that's Tor.

[–] giacomo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 week ago

you know what, forget the Internet!

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[–] CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.cafe 81 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I strongly encourage everyone to protect the things they love, download all of Wikipedia, screenshot & download all the things. It's a little paranoid, sure, but between all of us downloading & saving all our little pieces of the web & all its information, we effectively safeguard most of it from digital terrorism, tyranny, erasure. It costs very little, relatively speaking. Do your part & I'll do mine.

[–] chromodynamic@piefed.social 6 points 6 days ago

I've often felt that the web should work more like Git, so you can keep the content locally and just pull updates when you need.

[–] wintermute@discuss.tchncs.de 42 points 1 week ago (7 children)

I have Kiwix (offline versions of Wikipedia and other online resources) and Linkwarden (preserve specific websites in multiple formats) running on my home server.

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[–] HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 80 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Trouble is, there is little that can be done.

Enough folks drank the coolaid, and now we're stuck with surveillance laws masquerading as child protection laws.

Those laws can, and will, get worse over time. However, new mediums will arise, or old ones will rise to the occasion (IRC goes brr). The main thing to do is remain calm, make it a key voter issue, and watch the bastards fold right before the next election.

[–] comfy@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 days ago

Enough folks drank the coolaid,

You say that like the UK all sat down in a room and most of the country said "please censor me".

[–] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 days ago

It's always about trust in your government. As a Slovakian, I don't believe mine.

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[–] Korne127@lemmy.world 67 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Tor is slow and has a reputation of being used by pedophiles and drug traffickers.

It sucks that literally using something that should be the default, truly protecting privacy, has such a bad reputation because… well it protects privacy.

[–] misteloct@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 days ago

Paper money is slow and has a reputation of being used by pedophiles and drug traffickers.

A lot of inert things are used in bad ways.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 43 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Seriously. The reason CSAM merchants and drug dealers use Tor is because it actually protects their privacy successfully. Whereas, if you're using a VPN or whatever cobbled-together solution, the feds just have a hearty laugh about it, send a subpoena by email or use some automated system that's even more streamlined, and then come and find you.

Tor is not bulletproof; they regularly run operations where they take down some big illegal thing on the dark web. But they have to do an operation for it, and if there were any solution that was any better, that thing would be even more infested with illegal material than "the dark web" is. That's just how it works. And listening to the newspapers when they tell you that it's a sign you need to stay away from those actually-effective solutions because "terrorism!" or whatever is a pretty foolish idea.

[–] Auth@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I dont think most people need a security model that is fed proof. Thats a pretty extreme level of privacy and most people would break it by yappign about their life to much.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Well, but we're talking about how to prepare for the future where it does need to be fed proof. At some point, I think pretty soon from now in some places, it's going to become necessary to either break the rules of the internet in ways that can actually get you in trouble, or accept that you have to do things like upload your ID to all these places, agree not to access certain types of content the government doesn't want you looking at, not say certain political things on social media or else you're going on a list, things like that.

I think option A is probably better and it probably makes sense to start to think about, how are we going to do that and not have the expanded-and-mission-creeped version of ICE showing up at your door for it to give you a citation or worse, a year from now.

Right now, yes, a VPN is fine. But that's only true for as long as the government doesn't strongly dislike anything that you are doing.

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[–] Xkdrxodrixkr@feddit.org 24 points 1 week ago

This is honestly the best reputation a technology like this could have imo, because it very clearly shows that it does work

That reputation has entirely been created by the media frenzy over busting the worst kinds of criminals.

Oh they're all using the same technology? Yeah of course they are, because that's the technology that works the best. It has so many fucking use cases.

Funny that the media frenzy is hitting a fever pitch just as we most desperately need powerful tools for opposing fascism. Almost like that's not really a coincidence.

[–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 40 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Frankly, the answer should be for every site to just cut the UK off entirely. Let them have their own little North Korean style micronet. Maybe when the people of the UK can't visit anything but a bunch of miserable English websites, they will get off their asses and elect competent leaders. If not, well maybe they're just not the sort of people we should allow access to the global communications network. Let the barbarians stew in their own barbarism.

[–] kilgore_trout@feddit.it 25 points 1 week ago (3 children)

The EU is following in a not far future.

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[–] Skavau@piefed.social 36 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Lemmy.zip has already blocked UK users and Lemmy.world will almost certainly do the same.

For clarity, lemmy.zip had blocked them months ago because the owner of lemmy.zip is based in the UK and theoretically could actually be fined. This is not the same situation as lemmy.world.

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[–] Paddy66@lemmy.ml 36 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The UK moves are very worrying. We're trying to help people to move away from big tech at our site https://www.rebeltechalliance.org/

We recommend fediverse protocols wherever possible - so I'm interested in the comments here about how that is affected

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

This site would be more compelling if it didn't look so much like a you wouldn't steal a car ad.

[–] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 26 points 1 week ago (2 children)

meshtastic

Meshtastic is a project that enables you to use inexpensive LoRa radios as a long range off-grid communication platform in areas without existing or reliable communications infrastructure. This project is 100% community driven and open source!

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Lora is typically 50k max (theoretical 256k). So less than dial up speed.

It is in no way a replacement technology for wifi.

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[–] SpikesOtherDog@ani.social 24 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Wi-Fi mesh might be possible with neighbors, but mitm is extremely likely. Also, a non-Internet-routing protocol will need to be invented as I do not want possibly liable traffic to run over the clear web without some kind of tunnel.

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[–] PattyMcB@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Outlawing VPNs? Good luck doing business with the rest of the world

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