this post was submitted on 18 May 2025
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[–] Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Matrix representations in general, if that counts?

Complex numbers, polynomials, the derivative operator, spinors etc. they're all matrices. Numbers are just shorthand labels for certain classes of matrices, fight me.

[–] agelord@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Would you elaborate on the last statement?

[–] Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 7 hours ago

I'm just being silly, but I mean that if everything can be represented as a matrix then there's a point of view where things like complex numbers are just "names" of specific matrices and the rules that apply to those "names" are just derived from the relevant matrix operations.

Essentially I'm saying that the normal form is an abstract short hand notation of the matrix representation. The matrices are of course significantly harder and more confusing to work with, but in some cases the richness of that structure is very beautiful and insightful.

(I'm particularly in love with the fact one can derive spinors and their transforms purely from the spacetime/Lorentz transforms. It's a really satisfying exercise and it's some beautiful algebra/group theory.)

[–] Toes@ani.social 24 points 20 hours ago

Negative zero, comes up in comp sci.

[–] Nemo@slrpnk.net 32 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

I have a strong relationship to what you get when you divide by zero.

Good ol' NaN

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 5 points 14 hours ago

I like writing swear words into the mantissa of NaN numbers

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 19 hours ago

You only get NaN for division by zero if you divide 0 by 0 in IEEE floating point. For X/0 with X ≠ 0, you get sign(X)•Inf.

And for real numbers, X/0 has to be left undefined (for all real X) or else the remaining field axioms would allow you to derive yourself into contradictions. (And this extends to complex numbers too.)

[–] untakenusername@sh.itjust.works 9 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

i=sqrt(-1) is nice, but im hoping someone finds a use for the number x where |x| = -1 or some nonsense like that because it looks fun to mess with

[–] november@lemmy.vg 10 points 17 hours ago

Those exist in the split-complex number system which adds the number j, where j^2=1 (but j does not equal 1 or -1). The modulus of j is -1.

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 19 hours ago

j = √-1

This comment was sponsored by EE gang

[–] Ludrol@szmer.info 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

{j|∧} or ĵ just a base vector

[–] november@lemmy.vg 6 points 17 hours ago

I'm a big fan of 10-adics, especially this one.

j is cool too, as is (1+j)/2.

[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 22 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

ε, the base of the dual numbers.

It’s a nonzero hypercomplex number that squares to zero, enabling automatic differentiation.

[–] palordrolap@fedia.io 8 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Came here to say this, but since it's already here, I'll throw in a bonus mind-melting fact: ε itself has no square root in the dual numbers.

[–] DoGeeseSeeGod@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

As a not good at math person, advanced math sounds hella fake sometimes. Like almost a parody of math. I accept that it's real but part of me will always think it's some inside joke or a secret society cult for the lamest god.

[–] palordrolap@fedia.io 1 points 17 minutes ago

A lot of "advanced" maths comes from asking "What if this was a thing, how would that work? Would it even work?", so you could say there's a deliberate sense of "fake" about it.

Dual numbers come from "What if there was another number that isn't 0 which when multiplied by itself you get 0?"

Basic dual numbers (and complex numbers) are no harder than basic algebra, shallow end of the pool kind of stuff, but then not everyone is comfortable getting in the water in the first place, and that's OK too.

[–] november@lemmy.vg 1 points 11 hours ago

Complex numbers 🤝 Split-complex numbers 🤝 Dual numbers

All super rad.

[–] protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 22 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Count042@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 hours ago
[–] quilan@lemmy.world 12 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

So complex or quaternion I imagine? 'i' it is!

[–] JohnnyCanuck@lemmy.ca 11 points 22 hours ago

√-4 = 2

It's all fun and games until someone loses an i.

[–] Bigfish@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 21 hours ago (1 children)
[–] whaleross@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)
[–] CatGPT@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 20 hours ago
[–] nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 4 points 21 hours ago
[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Nemo@slrpnk.net 11 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Pi is a real number, though. It's irrational, but real.

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 0 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Pi written out is a real number, yes, I’m referring to the symbol representing Pi. Does that not count?

[–] davidagain@lemmy.world 7 points 17 hours ago
[–] ItsLysandreAgain0@jlai.lu 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Chaitin's constants.

Not even a number.

[–] Ad4mWayn3@sh.itjust.works 6 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

They are still real numbers. Specifically uncomputable, normal numbers. Which means their rational expansion contain every natural number.

[–] ItsLysandreAgain0@jlai.lu 1 points 19 hours ago

Oops, I misunderstood what an uncomputable is...

In that case, I would say Infinity-Infinity. This time, it's truly not a number.

[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio -3 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

Zero

It's the absence of a number and has all manner of interesting edge cases associated with it.

[–] november@lemmy.vg 4 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

Zero is a real number, but interestingly, it's also a pure imaginary number. It's the only number that's both things at once.

[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 2 points 10 hours ago

As I said .. lots of edge cases :)

[–] Ad4mWayn3@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

It gets deeper. It's also the same as the 0-k-vector, the 0-k-blade, the 0-multivector, the only number that is its own square besides 1, etc...

[–] november@lemmy.vg 1 points 8 hours ago

There are other idempotent numbers in the split-complex and q-adic (for non-prime q) numbers.

[–] Ad4mWayn3@sh.itjust.works 12 points 21 hours ago

Zero is the absence of a quantity, but it is still a number.