this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2025
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Hi there, first I hope I don't offend anyone since this is not meant to be a bash on anyone and it's just reflecting my personal feelings. But I assume I will get attacked anyways.

So I'm a 21 year old from Germany and we don't have many people with darker skin shades here but the few I know who also grew up here are just like any other German and talk/behave the exact same way as every other German and also seem to be perceived like a normal German. Maybe some people might naturally be kinda surprised by people having darker skin since it's more rare but I feel like people just perceive the different skin shade the same way they perceive different hair and eye color.

But from America I noticed that many people constantly call them "black" or "white" people and make a big thing about it as if they were a different race (and of course we scientifically know that there's only one human race). And it seems like many Americans identify with that so much that they separated and developed different cultures, behavior and way of talking solely based on their skin shade even though they're born and raised in the same country.

I know that there was slavery and segregation in America based on exactly this in the past but this is over and we're living in 2025 now which is why I wonder if this is still appropriate and contemporary.

Because to me personally this kinda feels like America is still stuck in those slavery/segregation times and it makes me feel very uncomfortable every time I hear this "black" and "white" stuff which is becoming constant since American media is everywhere. And I feel like this is also influencing people overseas like here where especially younger people in cities adopt this American mindset and I've even seen some using the N-Word etc.

When I grew up I never even had a concept of "different skin colors" because it just felt normal that people naturally look different and I still think like this about people and see it the same way as people having different hair and eye color but I can tell that these racist ideologies are doing something to me.

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[–] cetaceanprayers@lemmy.world 39 points 6 days ago (6 children)

racism is an accepted reality in the US. racism is a denied reality in Europe.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

This is a major oversimplification.

Americans made a huge mistake tying race to identity so hard and it's incredibly cringy from outsiders pov. Europe is taking more of a colorblind approach and while it still needs a lot of work it's much more sustainable and really the only viable path forward. World where race == identity will never be sustainable.

[–] UnculturedSwine@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Pretending to be colorblind doesn't make one colorblind. Americans have largely adopted an ideology of anti-racism. That is, acknowledge that racial biases exist and keep the door open for healthy conversations. You may try to ignore the fact that racial biases exist but doing so only perpetuates them.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

We can disagree here. I'm convicned that colorblindness is the only way to approach this and we can see in practice that American approach doesn't work with your government throwing nazi salutes and banning words and constant race war looming over the entire country.

Maybe if you took the colorblind route you wouldn't be where you are right now.

[–] UnculturedSwine@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The colorblind route is how we got here. It has allowed white supremacists to operate under our noses while the people pretending to be colorblind give them the benefit of the doubt when they do their racist dog whistles. You see it even now with some of my countrymen trying to say Elon is just being autistic when he throws out a Nazi salute. We've been taking the colorblind route for decades and the only way we've been able to fight back is to listen to the minorities that are here and build our communities around celebration of our differences. I'm not going to treat everyone the same because the reality is that we are not all the same. Everyone has their own quirks and experiences and neuroses. I treat everyone how they want to be treated because that is how I respect their individuality. Everyone has the potential to teach me important things I don't know.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago (1 children)

the colorblind route js how we got here.

Umm big doubt on that my dude. US ties identity to race so hard that colorblindness is not even a term in your social dictionary and thats why you're all so mad when people call you out cause you simple don't even understand what a colorblind mentality is.

[–] UnculturedSwine@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The definition of color blindness I'm using is ignoring race and treating everyone the same in spite of it. If you're using a different definition, tell me what it is and I can engage you based on that. If you're just going to be condescending to me, I might as well just not engage with you at all.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago

Thats fair, have a good day then 👋

[–] cetaceanprayers@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

go to one soccer (football) game.

“colorblind” lmfao, that’s rich

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Way to cherry pick one variable and miss the point entirely lmfao

[–] cetaceanprayers@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

am i really cherry picking if overt racism is a mainstay at your sports events?

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

And your overt racism is doing nazi salutes with the president 🙄

Where did that get us now?

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[–] goldfish_brain@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago

America is still very much racist. The Trump regime is particularly racist. They seek to codify their unspoken biases.

[–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

Because to me personally this kinda feels like America is still stuck in those slavery/segregation times

Yes. American culture is very much based on social hierarchies, and slavery created a very easy, color-coded social hierarchy. So it's hard to get rid of because a lot of people are invested in it - whether they admit it or not.

Americans (except for the most liberal) tend to look at race as a biological reality and regard anyone saying race isn't science as woke extremism. Generally when science conflicts with common/traditional sense in America, common sense wins. The only reason quantum physics isn't banned from schools yet is because probably only about 10% of Americans know the first thing about quantum physics.

Americans also regard a wide variety of racial discrimination - such as in dating (including who you allow your kids to date), or where you live, or where you send your kids to school, as "not racist". This is considered not racist because the goal isn't to harm racial minorities, but rather you're just doing it to protect your place in the social hierarchy. The race-based social hierarchy. And if this harms minorities, well it's not like it's your fault right?

And if you dare try to suggest that the above is racist, people will get very angry at you and do things like elect Trump.

So yeah, racism is still very prevalent in the US.

[–] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 1 points 4 days ago

I think someone can be culturally X, legally X, ethnically X, etc. for any country X. I have met people from European backgrounds who grew up solely in Japan and would consider themselves Japanese, though some often wrestle with issues, both internal and external, around that since they eyes of someone seeing them almost always see only "other" first. They hold Japanese nationality, are culturally Japanese, but not ethnically Japanese. Then again, ethnicity is its own thing as well.

It's a complicated topic and I'm certainly no expert on it. I'm a white guy of mixed western european ancestry who grew up in a town where that was the majority (and had no shortage of anti-Semites and racists, as I would find out as I got older). I've just been trying to learn along the way. I've been living in Japan for the past decade and see some of the small things that cause extra hurdles for those of foreign backgrounds (ignoring outright racism in that; just little things that only work for people whose names are <= 8 characters, require documentation only Japanese people can ever get, etc.) People who don't know me will often just use one of the words for foreigner or outsider and clarify with white person if that's ever necessary.

I guess I have a question: If you found a child with "darker skin shades" who was lost and you needed to create the most accurate description possible to the police over the phone to help them, what would you use to describe them (until the police would arrive and obviously see with their own eyes)? I think I would personally pick the closest colors for everything I could and not care about any sense of political correctness.

There have been attempts in the US (and probably elsewhere) to replace "black" with "African American" or other similar things. Ask an American Indian what they want to be called. Some would say "Native American" though others reject that because they are older than any conception of America and are not native to that nation. Others will be OK with "first peoples/nations" (often used in Canada, I think), "aboriginal", or just "Indian" since that is the term they grew up with.

A bit of humor to close off with: sometimes people from the US will travel to the UK or elsewhere and, rather than using black to describe just the skintone of the person, will say "African American"... to people who often have never set foot there and certainly aren't citizens.

[–] klemptor@startrek.website 8 points 6 days ago

Didn't you already post about this?

[–] steeznson@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Scientifically race does exist in the sense that humans with certain genotypes can present certain phenotypes but we are all the same species. I don't think you can really quantify it at the individual human level though without ending up with all this old fashioned racist concepts coming into play, i.e. someone with 1/8 asian hertiage is "still asian" or whatever.

Race seems to be a bigger deal in the states because it is more politicised in terms of voting blocs. That's not to say we are immune to it in Europe like people with south asian heritage often vote for particular candidates in the UK for example.

I think one major factor in perceived differences is that our larger cities in Europe tend to be more genuine melting pots with fewer segregated areas. There are probably other reasons like having a stronger sense of civil society too.

tl;dr: race is real in a fuzzy sense but not particularly important. Europe has a different culture to the USA in some key senses.

[–] ArtificialHoldings@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

There's already a better word to describe genetic clusters - ethnicity/ethnic group, which is a real scientific concept defined by shared genealogy. Race has pretty much always been defined by someone's sociopolitical relationship with the British upper class, and has changed over time to accommodate varying definitions of, ex. "white".

[–] steeznson@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

I suppose my point was that phenotypes are real regardless of what you call them. Totally agree that the normative sense of the word "race" is a social construct.

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