this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2025
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for those who find this hard to read, it’s like my dad. he grew up in peru but by the border between peru and brazil, so he picked up portuguese.

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[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Hey, your question is kinda weird. And I mean it in a supportive way. Your understanding of borders and languages is wrong.

Country border aren't language borders. If the local dialect is preserved, both sides of the border can probably communicate. If not, then it becomes a question of what dialect became the standard language? are a lot of people crossing the borders regularly? which side of the border has a higher interest learning the other language?... And so much more.

I personally know a couple languages and some are from neighbors countries. I can cross the border in less than an hour. If I talk to someone from the other side in "our" dialects, we might experience the way the other person is talking as odd but we understand each other. But those who don't know their local dialect, have a very hard time catching on, while tbh i don't know why. Maybe because I know both languages, I see the similarities and they don't and get confused by differences. On my side of the border, most natives speak the other country's language fluently, for economical reasons. On the other side, it is unusual to find someone who can speak our language, and the local dialect.

In short, you will get a mixed bag of responses and there are patterns and reasons for it but you are kinda asking the wrong question to get a meaningful answer.

A practical example and the araising questions, in Belgium people speak a bunch of languages, french, German and Flemish(/dutch). Based on what I heard, the french part of the country doesn't tend to speak Flemish and the Flemish part doesn't speak french (or at least don't want to). Does the french part speak the language of their neighbor, as they speak french, or not because it is also their own language? Is Flemish a language or just a dutch dialect? What about the German speaking part? If a Belgian learned french in school, while living in Flanders, would move to the french border, would that count as speaking their neighbors language? Or not?

I like your question but it is unfortunately one based in a flawed belief/thinking.

[–] Servais@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

Belgian here, let's be honest, Belgium is an edge case, being with Switzerland the few multilingual countries in Western Europe with large proportion of the population speaking one language and the other (different from the South Tyrol situation below).

Germans, French, Dutch, Italians and Spanish living next to a borders would definitely encounter the situation described in the OP.

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 6 hours ago

There are certainly cases but the situation in general is much more complicated and multi layered that there is anything to learn, without considering it all.

And I don't like when e.g. language, a obvious part of culture, gets viewed and understood in nation borders.

[–] bloor@feddit.org 2 points 14 hours ago

adding to this very good answer: especially in Europe legal, cultural and language borders can differ quite a bit due to history and geography. I'm from South Tyrol, an italian province at the Austrian border. The majority of people there speak a german dialect, we have german schools, public administration and everything, but are a language minority in Italy. The historic explanation is that after WW1 this region became part of Italy, taken fron Austria-Hungary.

Further there is a third official language in South Tyrol, basically only spoken in two valleys anymore, the "Ladin". It's a very old language, related to similar language island in adjacent italian provinces and Switzerland. Those languages basically just preserved themselves for geographic reasons (hard accessible valleys and mountains). for this reason those languages tend to differ already between to neighbouring valleys. I was tought, that most of South Tyrol spoke Ladin at some point, but after the Swiss turned Calvinistic, the catholic (and austrian) bishop of the region forced the south-tyroleans to speak german to distance them from the heretic Swiss.^^

During WW2 the fascists in Italy forced South Tyrol to speak italian and forbade everything german, including local, personal and family names; one reson certainly was to enforce this ideology of "one nation, one culture, one people".

Returning to OPs question: In South Tyrol there are german schools, where you learn italian and english as mandatory second languages, analogously for italian schools. Both languages are valid for any official entity (in theory). In the valleys mentiined above, they also have ladin schools.

[–] RicoSuave@feddit.cl 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

ohhh, makes sense. i meant for example, if a polish person who lived by the polish-german border ended up learning german to communicate with germans or not.

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I understood and appreciate your question but my point is that it is very complicated. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of polish people who lived by the polish-german border would learn German (maybe even in school) but I would be surprised if many Germans living on the same border, learned polish.

[–] RicoSuave@feddit.cl 2 points 15 hours ago

i get it now :)

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Maybe not exactly what you're asking but I grew up and live in Vancouver, Canada, which is really close to the US border. Obviously both sides speak English but I feel that the accents and slangs bleed across. I don't really know if I'm considered to have a Canadian or American accent, or where the distinctions lie.

[–] darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] RicoSuave@feddit.cl 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Danish. (Not a very useful language, but quirky and quite charming.)

[–] voytek709@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Kan du forstå meg? (Jeg skriver på norsk, min fars språk. jeg lærer fortsatt, men jeg har hørt at norsk og dansk er veldig like)

[–] darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Jada, jeg har bodd og jobbet i Norge i et par år, så ingen problemer med å forstå norsk. 😉

[–] Fleppensteijn@feddit.nl 2 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

It's funny I understand all that when written but couldn't understand a word when Scandinavians speak

[–] voytek709@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Oh, jeg så at du er nederlandsk :) Hoe gaat het dan met je

[–] Fleppensteijn@feddit.nl 1 points 9 hours ago

Alles goed :) ja, ik kom uit Nederland

[–] voytek709@lemmy.ca 1 points 12 hours ago

Hvilket språk kan du?

[–] voytek709@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

Forbausende!

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

the people on the american side mostly didn't; while a significant portion, but still a minority, of the people on the mexican side did not.

[–] knacht1@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Yes. I learned Canadian eh?

[–] FoxyFerengi@lemm.ee 4 points 1 day ago

I lived in an area that had more or less migrant workers depending on season. I did pick up some of the language as a kid, because I had friends who were part of that population, but honestly I can't speak it now. Sometimes I can pick out the general meaning if I read it, but not often enough to be confident in my understanding.

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I can understand a very significant amount of Swedish but wouldn't say I speak Swedish per se — I can rather put on an accent and apply some regular changes and switch out a few words in a crude approximation of Swedish, but is that really the same thing? There is actually a term for that sort of blending of Swedish and Norwegian, svorsk.

[–] RicoSuave@feddit.cl 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

ooooohhh, another norwegian speaker! i just saw you speak 4 languages, that’s awesome

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well, I should note that the situation for myself is that my mom's first language is American English, and her second language is Norwegian, and my dad was the reverse, however both he and my mom mainly spoke English to me growing up. So I ended up growing up with both English and Norwegian, but because of the language dynamics in my family and in Norway in general, and because I was comparatively socially isolated for a long time, and because of various feedback loops, my Norwegian skills ended up basically "lagging behind" my English skills. This means that my idiolect in Norwegian has a number of prominent proscribed or eccentric features. So that's something to keep in mind for when I put my Norwegian through this Swedish "filter" — that the Norwegian being filtered is itself already "Americanized" for lack of a better term.

Russian and Japanese are two languages that I have self-studied for a number of years. Neither of them are really up to the level I'd like, but I can still take pride in the effort I've put in and how far I've gotten, because even if my progress is slow compared to some learners, most hobbyist learners burn out and quit way sooner, right? Esperanto was one language that I tried to learn but quickly gave up on, but I've recently restarted learning that, and I hope and frankly expect that this time around I'll make it to a much higher level, and it'll become the fifth language I'll say I can speak. And there are other languages still that I'd like to try my hands at eventually, and I've also been conlanging as a hobby for about a decade already, and languages are fuzzy things anyways, so just like anyone else I can sometimes understand individual words or sentences in languages I've never studied.

[–] RicoSuave@feddit.cl 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

ooohhh. my dad’s first language is spanish, second language portuguese, then english :)

my mom’s first is english, then polish

also, that makes complete sense, i’ve been told i speak portuguese better than english/spanish.

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Det virker som du har en veldig interessant bakgrunn, kan du fortelle mer om språkene du kan, hvordan du vokste opp, hva forholdet ditt er til disse forskjellige språkene? Jeg er også nysgjerrig om språkdynamikken der du bor, mtp portugisisk og spansk og engelsk osv, og forholdene mellom disse.

[–] RicoSuave@feddit.cl 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

men jeg kan ikke si at jeg blander ikke sammen språkene. siden jeg er neurodivergent, er det tider som jeg kan ikke tenke på ordene på et språk.

hvis jeg er på ferie med min familie som snakker spansk og noen snakker engelsk på meg, jeg er kanskje ikke svare 😅

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago

Nettopp, nettopp. Jeg tror dette er vanlig for de fleste flerspråklige men blir ofte mer intenst for neurodivergente.

[–] RicoSuave@feddit.cl 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

oh sure! i’ll say this part in english for everyone who wants to read.

my dad is from peru but of cuban descent (peruvian from dad, cuban-peruvian from his mom). naturally, both his parents spoke spanish and lived in a spanish-speaking country, so dad grew up speaking spanish.

however, he lived near the peru-brazil border, where he learned portuguese from portuguese speakers he saw. (my dad’s family mostly only speaks spanish though or spanish and english)

at around ten i think, he came to the us and started to learn english.

my mom is an american of polish descent, polish is her second language when her family started teaching it to her as a young girl. (but her dad either knows spanish and didn’t teach her or doesn’t know it as a latino.)

i use spanish mainly at home, with paternal family, and with my spanish-speaking friends. english with most people because it’s a widely spoken language online and in the us, and portuguese with my dad and brazilian online people.

[–] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 5 points 1 day ago

I've learned French in school for 5 years, but I only speak it on a relatively basic level, despite living very close to France and crossing the border quite often. Not too big of a deal though, as many people in Alsace also speak a German/Alemannic dialect.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yea, I grew up in America and ended up being fluent in Canadian as well. I ended up emigrating there even.

I've got a friend from Catalonia and he's fluent in English, Spanish and Catalan... and can get by in French.

[–] Nasan@sopuli.xyz 2 points 16 hours ago

I grew up along the border with Idaho and still can't understand them 20 or so years later.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 1 points 1 day ago

I know that “Araf” means “Slow” in Welsh due to the road markings.