When people are healthy, they can work. This is profitable for companies. When someone is sick, they can't work. This is not profitable for companies. So it's better to kill the ill. Just like in Auschwitz. Right, insurance companies? Right, Musk? Right, Trump? Right, most Americans who voted in favor of this system and empowering mega corps at the cost of most people by voting for Trump?
this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2024
6 points (87.5% liked)
Progressive Politics
1885 readers
1039 users here now
Welcome to Progressive Politics! A place for news updates and political discussion from a left perspective. Conservatives and centrists are welcome just try and keep it civil :)
(Sidebar still a work in progress post recommendations if you have them such as reading lists)
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Fun fact: did you know Kamala's campaign spent $1.5 billion in just 15 weeks compared to Trump's campaign spending only $382 million?
I think people voted for Trump more for his promise to fix the economy and to deport the illegals. I guess we'll find out over the next 4 years, if we don't end up destroying the planet in that time. It's also worth noting that even Kamala wasn't planning to get rid of privatised healthcare.
That's because the majority of the democrats are also really right. As soon as a more left oriented candidate steps up, like Bernie Sanders, they're called a communist and people run to right oriented big corporate pawns instead.
The end candidates of the 2 parties (which is a dumb system itself) are a product of what the entire party chose to represent them. Maybe the situation this time is a bit different, with Biden stepping down and formally pushing Kamala forward, but Biden is also a product of the democrats. He was chosen to represent them. Biden is also right wing. Mildly compared to Trump, but strongly compared to what the rest of the world considers to be left. The entire states shifted further to the right. And never was left in the first place. I mean, slavery is still legal. Wtf.
The US is shifting further and further towards an autocratic state. Everyone claims it's the land of the free, chooses for leaders who will take away their freedom and then complain they aren't free anymore. Yeah, well, you get what you paid for. It's just fucked up the decisions these people made will fuck up a lot of people their lives. "I want all those other people to suffer, but I didn't think it would also harm me."
"I want all those other people to suffer, but I didn't think it would also harm me."
I don't think anyone wants others to suffer, they just want better management and accountability on how public funds are being distributed, because the consequence of bad management has been the steady decline of quality of living in America the past few years. My taxes are being spent on housing illegal immigrants instead of homeless veterans. Politicians we elect to office don't know how to do their job. Biden got us mixed up in two wars instead of de-escalating. Billions down the drain. Things felt generally better under a Trump presidency because he was "America first" (sorry non-Americans), and they're chasing that feeling/hope that he can do it again. The majority vote was for Trump, so unless there was election tampering, it's safe to say the majority of Americans feel that way. I personally didn't vote in the election, because I didn't like either candidate. I'm somewhere in the middle, so I understand why both sides voted the way they did. I used to be more left, but over time I started to clock the hypocrisy in the party. Especially with Kamala.
People like Bernie never had a chance because the rich control what the media covers, just like they control elections to a certain extent like with Elon funding Trump's campaign. It's just the way the U.S. works, sadly. The only other effective way to change things quickly is to send a message to the rich like Luigi did.
I fail to see a definition of murderer that includes this CEO and doesn't include literally everybody. I mean how many future people do we all murder when we drive our cars or even order a package delivered. Unless you're just sitting in a corner eating rice and beans and washing it down with water, you've probably contributed to someone's death by now.
The real murderer is the capitalist US health care system, and that's still very much alive and well. This CEO's death is negligible compared to the problem, instead it's just a second problem.
It's the same mistake that all of society has made for about 5000 years now. Punishing individuals for preventable deaths that are caused by bad systems at best causes suffering for a steep cost and virtually no actual benefit while providing an opiate that keeps us from confronting the actual problem, and at worst actually contributes to those preventable deaths.
The CEO was basically a captain of the capitalists us healthcare system. If he wasn't responsible for the misery caused by his command of his part of that system, then who is?
The lawmakers that created the system? The voters that demanded it?
You gotta go back to Mesopotamia for the invention of health insurance. This one is 100% the fault of "free markets".
So... the system at large is at fault?
No, it's the people who maintain it, like the CEO's and majority shareholders. Stop them, and you stop the system. Might come back though, that's the problem with humans, we're really good at fucking each other over.
You don't get the be the biggest ensurer that offers the most affordable plans by just focusing on your clients experience as its really the companies who decide for their employees mainly. I do think a company who doesn't engage in this shitty behavior has it harder in this market thats clearly not regulated properly
I fail to see a definition of murderer that includes this CEO and doesn’t include literally everybody.
The difference is that Brian Thompson was a willing participant and policy maker of an organization that had twice the industry standard of insurance denials (and therefore deaths). He was willingly participating and aiding in those killings, even if indirect.
Even something as simple as rice and beans can indirectly lead to the death of somebody, but the difference is that buying a bag of rice at the grocery store is something you are unwilling to do because you are forced to eat as a part of your physiology. By buying a bag of rice, you aren't enforcing a policy of deforestation or slave labor. Your only other option is to commit suicide to never burden anyone else for any resource ever again, but that very clearly isn't a morally correct option either.
So yeah, it's pretty easy to have a definition that includes the CEO but not everyone else, an intentional and willing killing of another person.
This CEO’s death is negligible compared to the problem, instead it’s just a second problem.
His killing has overnight launched a nationwide discussion about how bullshit the current system is. There is immense value in that. It ain't a problem.
Punishing individuals for preventable deaths that are caused by bad systems
This was an individual who helped make the system. Brian Thompson was directly responsible for it's creation.
while providing an opiate that keeps us from confronting the actual problem
This is backwards. Between the action itself and the national discussion, both the action and result directly confront the actual problem of oligarchs wielding unchecked power. They don't listen to begging for scraps.
This was an individual who helped make the system. Brian Thompson was directly responsible for it’s creation. Bro he's been CEO since 2021... You really think he created the entire system?
His killing has overnight launched a nationwide discussion about how bullshit the current system is. There is immense value in that. It ain’t a problem. Are there other ways to spark a discussion that don't involve murder? Better options that have an overall more beneficial outcome for everyone with less chaos and death? I think so.
If the public really wanted change they could've demanded it long ago. This is a democracy (even if FPTP is shitty). Why would you not vote for the party that wants to make healthcare more humane and instead vote the party and guy for president who's a public oligarch and thinks of the working class as beneath him.
Ethically the things Brian Thompson did were bad sure. But if he granted every healthcare request would the investors replace him? Most likely yes.
I believe you also cross a line when you argue that self-justice is right. Are rich people just gonna get murdered now since they're rich? Like bc the capitalistic system favours people that already have wealth? Where is the line. Can I now murder anyone I think is a bad person? I don't think this behaivor should be supported.
You don't even know the guy... you see him as a demonised person and now his family and friends have lost him for no real change to have taken effect. I just hope this discussion won't just simmer down and the public will ignore the issue again.
Edit: Originally it said:
I just hope this discussion just simmer down and the public will ignore the issue again.
Which is definitely what I wanted to say
If the public really wanted change they could’ve demanded it long ago.
They have been. Congress doesn't listen:
https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba/
This is a democracy (even if FPTP is shitty).
On paper, sure. But in effect it is an oligarchy.
Why would you not vote for the party that wants to make healthcare more humane and instead vote the party and guy for president who’s a public oligarch and thinks of the working class as beneath him.
Because the rulers of this country have systematically gutted the education system, they own the media, and their propaganda is wildly effective. And to top it off, as you pointed out it is a FPTP voting system, which means that the results of elections are worse.
Ethically the things Brian Thompson did were bad sure. But if he granted every healthcare request would the investors replace him? Most likely yes.
So what? Not being able to do good things in a position of power doesn't mean it is acceptable or that he had no culpability.
I believe you also cross a line when you argue that self-justice is right. Are rich people just gonna get murdered now since they’re rich? Like bc the capitalistic system favours people that already have wealth? Where is the line. Can I now murder anyone I think is a bad person? I don’t think this behaivor should be supported.
I pretty clearly (though implicitly) defined the line already:
- an intentional and willing killing of another person.
Brian intentionally and willingly killed people through his actions, and a lot of them. Thousands at a minimum, though easily tens of thousands as he was the CEO for quite a while. When somebody like him is killed, even if through vigilante justice, it is quite clearly justified. Have you been killing tens of thousands of people through insurance denials? No? Then you have nothing to worry about.
Other people who are rich should simply be taxed out of existence as a class. Not killed, just taxed until they're at the level that would have previously been known as middle class before it was destroyed.
You don’t even know the guy… you see him as a demonised person and now his family and friends have lost him
As Snapz pointed out, Hitler had family too. Having a family doesn't exclude you from having your death celebrated. If you're evil, you're evil even if you have family. And mass murderers like Brian Thompson are evil. So boo hoo. He gets his death celebrated. Maybe he shouldn't have killed tens of thousands if he didn't want this.
for no real change to have taken effect.
Then you aren't paying attention, either to the surrounding events, or to what I literally just said:
- His killing has overnight launched a nationwide discussion about how bullshit the current system is. There is immense value in that. It ain’t a problem.
I just hope this discussion just simmer down and the public will ignore the issue again.
I don't. And it won't. This is a conversation that needs to and will continue until the problem is solved.
Wait sorry about the last sentence. I phrased this completely different than what I wanted to say. Thats on me. I do NOT want the discussion to simmer down. I don't want this death to have been for nothing and I do want change.
Still he became CEO 2022 and many of those denial policies have been enacted internally before that. Hitler was the dictator and above the law. He made the law and was the only instance of power. If Brian Thompsons primary objective was to kill then I'd support it. But I don't think it was. I think this system is at fault for it all the the politicians need to change it likes stated. But I don't think we'll reach a conclusion here honestly. You think self-justice is justified. I think its not. Thats the point I'll stick with.
Wait sorry about the last sentence. I phrased this completely different than what I wanted to say. Thats on me. I do NOT want the discussion to simmer down. I don’t want this death to have been for nothing and I do want change.
All good, it happens.
If Brian Thompsons primary objective was to kill then I’d support it. But I don’t think it was. I think this system is at fault for it all the the politicians need to change it likes stated.
The problem is that people like Brian Thompson are the people who built the system, who bribed politicians to make it legal.
You think self-justice is justified. I think its not. Thats the point I’ll stick with.
I think simply calling this self-justice is inaccurate. If anything it's class justice. It was an action taken in self defense by the working class. It may have only been one person pulling the trigger on one person, but ultimately it is a result of class warfare, not simply self-justice.
Fuck Matt Walsh.
Ok, carry on.
did you mean crowder?