I hear what you are saying, but I'm not sure why you aren't doing what you want to do.

If you have a computer not provided by work, why do you have Slack or Teams?

Use ad blockers and/or Pi-Hole to avoid pesky ads.

Watch live TV.

Write a letter.

Stay away or use sparingly, data hungry services.

I know I feel better for it and I don't feel as if I'm missing much.

Eh, I think it's totally feasible to quarantine the problematic parts of tech and retain control. For example:

• GrapheneOS - I have a profile for my personal stuff w/o any Google services running, and then I have a "work" profile for things like Slack
• Linux - no software company or hardware company is going to restrict me from maintaining my own machine; I've replaced parts, uninstalled default software, etc; I currently use a Lenovo laptop and a DIY desktop, and I'll probably replace my laptop w/ a Framework

"impossible to go without these services"

Have you tried? I stopped using Facebook over a decade ago, and I refuse to use anything else Meta has touched. I still keep in contact with those I care about. It turns out that if people value a relationship with you, they'll work with what you're comfortable with, provided you're willing to compromise a bit too. For me, that means SMS and email is my main form of communication, though I'd prefer more private alternatives like Matrix and Signal. Maybe I'll push my loved ones to switch eventually, idk.

No one uses fax

Nor should they, it's absolutely insecure and shouldn't be used by anyone. Period.

Mail is great, many of my friends have old-school watches, and while I don't understand it, I have friends who watch live TV. None of that really interests me (though I'll watch the Olympics OTA sometimes).

take back computers

What's stopping you? Do it one step at a time, and make adjustments as you go. I switched to Linux full-time something like 15 years ago, and it's all I use today. Since then, I have:

• switched from gmail to my own domain (hosted w/ Tuta)
• ripped all our DVDs and Blurays to a local Jellyfin server and cancelled most of our streaming services (SO convinced me to keep Netflix)
• switched to GrapheneOS after a few years of slowly cutting out Google crap
• self-host all kinds of stuff (I'm really close to eliminating Google Drive)
• eliminated all commercial social media, and only Lemmy is left

Do the easiest stuff first, and keep going until you feel like you're in control. Your direction will probably look different than mine, and that's great! But waiting for someone else to solve your problems is what got us into this mess, so do something, and ideally do it today.

The internet, in particular social networking, needs to become personal.

I fleshed out an idea for building a personal social infrastructure system that will hopefully accomplish just that, but haven't put "code to disk" yet.

As time passes it's becoming more clear that this is ultimately the right way forward, but it's a big project.

Check out freetheinter.net and send me some feedback :)

Be the change you want to see.

Since people won't (for example) switch to privacy-respecting comm apps just because I ask them too, I'm building my own self-hosted box that I can duplicate for my family and friends.

My goal is to provide them with a single box solution for DNS filtering (PiHole), media server (including auto disc conversion and sharing between boxes), local backup (which will replicate encrypted backups to the other boxes similar to what Crashplan Personal did), phone backup and management (MDM and file management from PC), image and file sharing (something like Facebook for family only), instant messaging (most likely XMPP), etc, etc.

Yes, it's a pretty bold plan, but my family and friends are tech illiterate, so if I want to see an improvement in privacy for myself and them, it's on me to do it, and make it attractive for them.

I don't know, maybe there's a healthy medium? My home computing is still very personal.

I will hang out on IRC with friends, while I hack away on my low-tech coding projects in the background.

My smart phone is primarily used for comms and navigation, and I'm not stuck to it out in public.

I refuse a smart home, and the only mindless automation I take part in is dedicated to movies and TV.

Circling back around, I do feel like not all hope is currently lost.

Now, of course, you can simply install some Libre operating system and use Lemmy, or Mastodon or whatever. But computers are so embedded into society that it is simply impossible to go without these services unless you want to get yourself isolated (and potentially in trouble with the authorities).

Just install Linux and see for yourself that it's not that hard and definitely won't get you in trouble.

Of course, you'll see all the same shit, but it won't be as pervasive.

Besides, from prior experience, most people are unwilling to use technologies unless it is physically placed in front of them, whether through social influences, advertising or word of mouth, which generally corporate services do better than Libre alternatives.

Yes, that's true. Which is why I'm sort of a luddite - I want simpler devices with more limited (and likely not universal) functionality, so that they'd just work when they should and not work when they shouldn't. That is what should be given to ignorant people. Not something complex and spyware-ridden.

Sort of like ... pagers, from the recent association with that terrorist act committed by Israel.

I think there's a very big niche for simple electronic devices. Like you'd still often use hammer and nails at home, not an electric device with screwdriver mode, drill mode, hammer mode etc.

A separate device for texting and voice\video calls, with simple firmware to which support of different protocols can be added (distributed, say, just as plugins). A separate device for listening to music. A separate device to take photos and videos, I think we had something like this, what was it called I wonder, lol.

It may well be that the combined cost and efficiency for each application of a bunch of such simple devices will be better than with a smartphone. In such a case using them is optimal. It's also good for economy - instead of a rather powerful machine requiring TSMC-produced stuff they'd need a few MCs that can be produced in many places of our planet, competition and decentralization are good for everyone. It's also good for security - instead of very complex Android and iOS software stacks you'd have dedicated devices with smaller attack surface. It's good for your mental health - human brain works better with dedicated physical things. It's even good for fashion, I think even clubbing girls are starting to get tired of big dumb square pieces of glass with fingerprints all over them.

And it's good for the industry.

but as paper slowly disappears from our lives, this becomes harder and harder. Now you would likely be fired if you refused to use Teams or Slack or whatever your company uses. No one uses fax or writes mail or watches live TV anymore.

I'd use something like a Star Wars datapad with a e-ink display, too.

What you wrote is not an old fart rant. It's the only sane position on that. Not everything new is progress. Not everything new is better. Not everything more complex is more functional for one's practical needs.

There are plenty of options for personal computers; you have to make the choice to go private and personal.

I built my own desktop, which remains very common and is relatively easy to do. I have Linux and Windows on it, and use Linux nearly 100% as I agree I don't like ads etc. I use a Firefox with ad blockers and don't get ads; I use lots of open source software even to access services like Youtube (Free tube).

There are also even linux laptops, and the Frame.Work laptop which is fully modular and bring your own OS.

There are open source OS for phones.

You're right about the corporatisation of the internet and services, but it remains up to users to vote with their feet and chose to take back their privacy and person computing.

Linux is at 4% of desktop users in recent months - that is many millions of people actively choosing to exist in a space where they control their personal computers. People don't need to remove computers, just chose to set them up to be what they want them to be.

What are you blathering about, it's never been cheaper or easier to have a personal computer than now, however you define it. You can go full paranoid from coreboot up or you can just get a steam deck and dock and have a nice arch in desktop mode. You can meaningfully use it with internet, Firefox with ublock origin, Signal to talk to your family without selling your soul or whatever. Is this written by a chatbot?

A decent percentage of Gen X and early millennials grew up familiar with computers. You kind of had to be, to some extent. Stuff didn't always work smoothly or easily, so some tinkering and understanding of how things work beneath the surface was required.

We're moving towards a future where a computer becomes just like an appliance, like a TV. Both the hardware and software will be locked down and set up to work. You just tap and press buttons to get it to do its thing.

Eventually, we may even get to the point where computers are required to be locked down "for our safety".

If we get that far, then I can imagine those who want to build their own and have full freedom to install and customise it any way they want could be considered the very fringe/fanatical elements of society.

"Hey, you want an illegal unauthorised computer, why on earth would you need that, are you a terrorist or criminal or something?"

I hope things don't go quite that far. But I don't think it's out of the question.

I grew up with computers since the ‘70s. I know this golden age well - and the golden age of the internet before it was monetized, tracked, ad-ified, walled off, etc.

We’re never going to get the old days back.

There’s always some business that’s going to insert itself between what you want and you and try to extract profit from it. Doesn’t matter if it’s tracking you or subscription fees.

I hate being taken advantage of like that, but unfortunately if you want to play with some of their toys you have to pay.

Just do it judiciously and take control where you can.

I build my own PCs. No pre-loaded crap. I download driver-only software when needed, not bloated corporate-ware like what HP or canon does to pester you about ordering ink. I have several Linux boxes doing free things for me like running a 3D printer, running a CUPS print server, running openHABian, a Jellyfin server, and the best of all - Pi-hole (block ads, block devices from phoning home). I run Firefox with all the ad blockers and anti-trackers. Facebook containers and YouTube ad blockers.

But I run windows 10. Why? Because it was free and it works. Take advantage of the system that takes advantage of you. I also run it dual boot with Manjaro, for all those tasks windows might make difficult.

My LAN has a separate network for all IOT and similar devices so they can’t see the rest of my network, and most are blocked from phoning home as needed. They don’t get to sell that data.

I take advantage of all free good software; Gimp, LibreOffice, OBS, VLC, 7zip…

Some things we’ll never get back, like ownership of top-tier games that have to phone home.

Anyway… like I said, there’s no way to wind the clock back. However, with effort, you can control what you can and at least not give them what they’re trying to extract from you. Be in charge of what you let them have. It’s really all we’ve got.

The worst part is the banks. You have to get lucky to be allowed to use online banking without agreeing to some sucky TOS.

Counterpoint: before Gmail, I ran my own mail server and futzed with Mutt for a perfect email experience. It was a frustrating time sink.

Gmail came out and I now get a better end-user experience with virtually no cost of ownership. I'm comfortable with the ad-supported model. I'd prefer a low monthly fee, but not so much that it's worth moving to Proton. Eventually, maybe I will.

I get this take, but it isn't for me.

Now you would likely be fired if you refused to use Teams or Slack or whatever your company uses.

Why would I refuse? It's company software running on company hardware. It isn't my problem what the ToS is.

I’ve been ranting about this a lot lately, but as the owner of mspencer.net (completely useless personal domain, but is 199 days older than wikipedia.org for what it’s worth)…

There is sort of a way to do that, but it’s still labor intensive so not a lot of people do it. Movements to investigate are homelab and selfhosted. Homelab equipment is old (extra power-hungry for the capability you get) or expensive. Self hosting requires a bunch of work to stand things up the way you want it.

Biggest barriers to self hosting - or hosting through your nearest nerdy relative - are the following:

Free ad-supported offerings (with the privacy and terms and conditions impacts you describe) are better and easier, so they out compete DIY options. If a nerdy family member offers to host forums and chat for your community club or whatever, the common response isn’t gratitude, it’s “That’s stupid, I’ll just use Facebook.” Without that need and attention, volunteer projects get way fewer eyeballs and volunteers are way less motivated.

Security is difficult to figure out. Project volunteers have enough on their plate just helping users get their stuff working at all. Helping novice users secure their installations is so much extra work.

Many volunteers feel taken advantage of if they produce something that could help companies make money better, when they don’t share any of the money they make through donations or support arrangements. Similarly, many open source projects get taken over by for-profit companies who diminish efforts to make their open source offerings easier to use for free. (They want companies to buy support contracts, even if it means frustrating use by private individuals without kilobucks to spare.)

Counter-point: why would want to own and maintain something like a computer? I want a simple device that take no thought and can be replaced with zero effort.

Now, of course, you can simply install some Libre operating system and use Lemmy, or Mastodon or whatever. But computers are so embedded into society that it is simply impossible to go without these services unless you want to get yourself isolated (and potentially in trouble with the authorities).

Lol what?

"If you don't use Mastodon or Lemmy you might get in trouble with the law!"

Welcome to the club!

I really feel this especially related to mobile (cellphone and tablet) communications: (Google Pixel is the only device offering substantial support for alternative OSes, Mobile Payment Processors rely on one of the big names like Google, Apple, Samsung etc., other projects becoming unmaintained and supporting 10 year old phones, etc.)

In the personal (laptop and desktop) computing space we are in a much better place. You are much less beholden to companies' interest in harvesting data on every aspect of your life.

Sure, we can lament that most people don't care. But look where we are now: I have daily driven my Linux box for a year to play all the games that are in style with my friends without Microsoft constantly over my shoulder. I'm on Lemmy and other Fediverse platforms, unbeholden to specific corporate policies. I use Beeper which means I don't have to have Meta apps harvesting interaction behaviour directly on my primary cellphone. I can't win every battle for my privacy and freedom, but each conscious choice I have that I make is a statement of resistance, and one step of many towards my ideal of the computer world I wish to be in.

My personal solution was to just drop computers/tech as an major interest, and find some other hobby. I found language learning to be a good alternative, because:

1. You may be able to use it professionally.

2. It might be useful when traveling.

3. You can meet interesting people from various parts of the world and very often for free (language exchanges (online or not), playing video games, etc.).

4. You are able to absorb other people's massive culture, that might not be popular in your part of the world.

5. You might impress some people with language skills, if you care about that.

6. It is good for your brain.

7. It is fun.

As for computers, I mostly use them as a tool nowadays, and occasional video gaming and YouTube watching. I mostly don't care about AI, or any other technological marvel that isn't proven yet to be useful, maybe except AR and VR which I still hope will be a big thing in the near future. Especially AR.

I get what you're saying, like being forced to use whatever the society/work tells you to do. I do experience this sometimes.

But I don't think I can replace computers as a whole. I can replace social medias (would happily do that in a jiffy) and get into social interactions, but I do watch lots of movies, YT videos etc.. and I need them for these. Luckily there are libre frontends and high seas for most of my needs. And I rarely see ads now a days, thanks ublock!

You can use these privacy frontends, ad blockers, VPN connection to block most of the annoying tracking. As for work related thing I am with you.