Btw, bigotry does not need to be conscious or intentional or malicious to be real and cause harm, and you can be transphobic even when you're not trying to or believe you're are not
Btw, bigotry does not need to be conscious or intentional or malicious to be real and cause harm, and you can be transphobic even when you’re not trying to or believe you’re are not, just saying.
This is why educating people on what being trans actually is and dispelling a lot of harmful and ill-intentioned myths is key in combating transphobia.
People always say that there's no point in talking to bigots and that they won't listen to reason. But I actually think there will always be merits to open and honest discussion if bigotry comes from a place of ignorance and not of malice. And since we can't know that for sure, open and honest discussions will always have at least some merit to them in my opinion.
Education is always the go-to way to combat these ideas. But of course, there will always be some people that will remain voluntarily ignorant. (And the other side, also wants to use it for the other way around.)
As said in another comment, I am cis and know nobody that isn't. This of course leaves me with little outside of the wild west of the internet. For this I ask you, do you have any resource (books, documentaries, videos...) that can help me understand the concept better so I can be a better supporter?
@SSUPII @DigitalAudio the most useful resource I’ve come across is this Philosophy Tube video: https://youtu.be/AITRzvm0Xtg
Seriously this.
I'm not a deliberate shitlord, and actively work on making people of all walks of life and ages welcome in my presence. That said, the trans movement is relatively new, and I'm still learning, despite living under a rock
Oh, you saw that comment section too, huh?
Yeah it fucking sucks. I hope that it won't become the norm for Lemmy's 196.
Responding to you here because fuck that thread so much. I have no idea how someone can essentially say "Yeah I'd date a trans man if they didn't have a masculine body" and see no issues with it. Fine with dating someone pre-transition because they're who you want them to be and not who they want to be? It's insane what "allies" say.
They really need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
I'm pretty sure that commenter cited that reason as why it would be a bad idea.
It was fucking gross.
People just openly calling "the majority of" trans people oversensitive and having a victim complex. Blegh <.<
its crazy, because the trans people ive met are some of the strongest people i know, myself included
having to deal with the worst of people will do that to a community, and getting blamed for being oversensitive, just for wanting to exist just adds to that
I know, right?
Moss, if you're reading this, do better. You might not consider that kind of rhetoric transphobic, but you don't speak for all trans people here. And most of the trans members of this community who have spoken on this are talking about how uncomfortable it makes them feel to see this kind of shit being tolerated. For the love of god, do better.
Yeah idk if it's just me but I'm getting weird vibes from the moderation here. First it's the forcing every title to have the word rule, which wasn't enforced in the original sub, and now this.
Same.
Lemmy's 196 has been way more liberal than Reddit 196, and I'm really not a fan of it. Some of these comment sections are full of the "Not all men!" Crowd and it's annoying AF.
Bsck when i used reddit i was told on 196 that I was being misogynistic when I, a trans man, talked about how I was receiving death threats irl after the Nashville shooting.
196 has always had its disappointing moments, I'm really sorry you had to go through that though. The amount of transphobia that case brought out of people was really hard to live with out in the Midwest.
I think it's because 196 here is "bigger" in relative terms, so it shows up more in c/all, so you get more people from other places getting exposed.
Fuck :(
Why do non-queer people have to ruin everything? :(
Ironically, the moderator who keeps insisting that it wasn't transphobic is actually trans.
I'm not surprised. I mean after seeing him clarify what he meant to say, I don't really think it's the end of the world. Even without that though, I wouldn't care about the comment if it wasn't posted by a mod afterwards. The thread that followed has so much fully transphobic shit in it and I find it disappointing that a mod would create the space for that.
196 was never the shining beacon of trans-understanding but migration seems to have made it messier.
That one thread of the dude saying he isn't attracted to post-op trans men because he likes tits and the comment section that is just "trans people are too sensitive". If you don't wanna date trans people it's fine. But being like "oh nooo, your boobs are gonna go away" is a joke
Oh gross, I didn't go super deep into the comment section but that is awful
Within reason. A trans person can be as entitled or self centered as anyone else. Trans people, like all people, can take genuinely harmless content and interpret it wrong. Its normal, we all do it.
Nothing like seeing comments calling trans people the "Karens of the lgbtq community" with tons of upvotes to make you feel nice and welcome. Even the not transphobic person that the reports were about showed up to kindly let us know that every trans woman they know has a huge chip on their shoulder.
Edit: I remembered that this instance disables downvoting. This is the exact reason I've always been a fan of downvotes. If a mod won't remove transphobic content, at least you know that the community around you disagrees with them.
Yeah, that thread is awful. The original comment it's all about doesn't even matter. That mod shouldn't have posted something like that, the comment section is a great reason why. I do not know why 196 just randomly becomes cool with bigotry when it's against trans people advocating for themselves. It's all "Riots are cool, fight for respect!" until they have to reconcile with having a white, western, neoliberal worldview in the face of someone they hold power over.
They're literally doing the Bo Burnham "Socko" bit without any of the irony.
It really depends on context.
If it really wasn't intentional, is it fault of the person speaking? Or is more of an issue of the environment it is living in?
Transphobia is transphobia. Malicious transphobia is obviously worse, but unintentional one, created by biases that person internalized by living in transphobic society, is still transphobia. Doesn't make you a bad person automatically, but being called out should act as an encouragement to reflect on these biases, not double down and go "I'm actually not transphobic, and it's you ~~trann~~ trans people who are too sensitive"
Absolutely, but the call out or response must be done appropriately without putting the other person in the defensive. This is true for any type of discussion.
I am cis an not know anyone that isn't. This means that everything I know about the community is via internet or television, and you know that can escalate, how information can start conflicting or just downright provide false dangerous information.
Writing this response, I actually found out I have a sensitivity bias due to all those Twitter posts screenshots about people getting very mad at others for something written. This is not good, because I do always think about what I write online but in this argument I am thinking more than I do usually. Thanks for making me notice it, I don't want this. I probably just need to talk more about this topic.
That's the thing, you recognize that it's not nice being addressed the way you don't want to. You don't want to be called out the way you don't want to, use this feeling to understand how it's not nice to be referred to in transphobic manner.
Of course, I do not put a single gram of doubt into that.
I wanted to come out with something I noticed I did wrong, despite me not having to because I want to always get to a better version of myself and it being on topic.
Yeah, some of the best allies I've ever had also had their unintentionally transphobic moments. When I first came out, there was an old woman I worked with who referred to me as "The queer". She'd also ask if I needed to go to the restroom anytime she went because she knew I was terrified to go in the women's bathroom alone. She'd chew people out on my behalf for being even slightly disrespectful. Even if I had the courage to do it (I didn't) I wouldn't have been able to advocate for myself like I needed to because I'm a trans woman. It's like how sometimes you gotta find a man to say something to another man so that they'll actually listen.
I spoke to her about it, she said she understood the discomfort and she'd just been using it as a term for so long that she didn't see it as an insult. She never stopped calling me that although the frequency did go down. She never said "Well I do all this for you as a friend, why are you even mentioning this?". She saw that she was unintentionally making her friend uncomfortable and wanted to do better. She still slipped up sometimes afterwards, and that was perfectly fine with me.
That's the difference between an ally that isn't perfect and someone who uses allyship to boost their ego
Kinda fucked up that that‘s being tolerated on blåhaj zone of all places
Not just tolerated, a mod straight up posted a report and said stop reporting it because it wasn't transphobic. Explicitly allowed and defended. If this was just some random comment, I wouldn't care that much, people can be a little problematic I don't care. But I don't want the sort of horrendous bullshit in that thread the mod posted in what I'd call a queer community.
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.