this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2024
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transgender

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An admin of this instance, Nutomic, is a transphobe and has no right to be able to ban trans people from this community. (lemmy.ml)
submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by marcie@lemmy.ml to c/transgender@lemmy.ml
138 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I'm calling for https://lemmy.ml/u/Beaver@lemmy.ca, the most prolific user of the transgender comm here on lemmy.ml, to be immediately unbanned and nutomic to be removed as admin. It is good and correct to leak the DMs of transphobes.

@dessalines@lemmy.ml @JoeBidet@lemmy.ml @cypherphunks

edit: you can find more info from kristinas post here and beavers post here

edit 2: proof, also beaver was banned from the whole instance modlong

edit 3: For trans people looking for a safer instance, I suggest Hexbear. They have a very active trans user base and are extremely supportive.

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[–] kristina@hexbear.net 71 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

As the 'head mod' of one of the largest (and certainly safest) trans communities on the fediverse, I absolutely agree. cat-trans

You can find a post on this issue here https://hexbear.net/post/3129775. To note: nutomic has also had comments removed for defending a defender of pedophilia @theanonymousejoker on lemmy.ml, who is now banned. He's also been banned on Hexbear for transphobia.

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 70 points 3 months ago (1 children)

God damn, I agree with Marcie.

Nutomic should self-crit and step back

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 38 points 3 months ago

💖

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 65 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Oh god … this happened?!

non-trans person sharing their perhaps invalid and uninformed opinionsAs someone who was calling for easing up on dogpiling on nutomic in that thread, banning beaver here, and the instance, is IMO not ok, at all.

Nutomic, you were probably pissed off about the leaking, I think most would get that. But as an admin here and a core dev, I think you have to do way way better than use your admin rights here as a weapon against someone you no longer like and who posted on another instance. If you think there’s a situation to sort out, it’s gotta be done more openly than this.

Rule 1 of this instance (against transphobia) probably applies.

No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.

As in, this moderation action was likely against instance rules. How else is a minority community to combat their oppressors than post about what ever communication they receive? To punish them for that communication however inappropriate it would have been from a less oppressed person is therefore punishing them and then coming under rule 1.

There were plenty of other ways to handle this. Banning a user looks a lot like petty and unreliable admin-ing. Especially when the issue of whether you are a transphobe is on the table and instead of addressing that you’ve chosen use your power against the transgender community here.

I get that leaking personal chats is always a dodgy thing, but in this case, I really hope the lemmy ml admins sort this out.

It’s really bad to weaponise admin powers against an oppressed minority. Certainly makes me question my membership here and the admins values. And is a particularly bad look for an instance many are criticising for having power crazy admins, most of which is red scare crap but totally justified in this case I suspect.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 46 points 3 months ago (1 children)

[I'm neither transgender nor a tankie, but instead just a rando browsing "all" who has no dog in this fight (aside from a general preference toward egalitarianism and against bigotry). I'm only commenting because this appears to be starting to spill over into issues that are relevant to the Fediverse at large.]

Nutomic, you were probably pissed off about the leaking, I think most would get that.

Hell no, not even a little bit! There's no such thing as "leaking" a PM* because the recipient has the right to publicize it! It's fucking nuts to send a message to somebody -- especially one that pisses them off -- and then expect them to keep it secret for the sender's benefit. If the sender doesn't like it, his recourse is to not fucking send the message in the first place!

The notion that the recipient of a PM has any kind of obligation toward the sender is the dumbest fucking thing I've read on this site in a while, and that's saying a lot since I've been reading about Trump and shit. Actually going so far as to ban somebody for a reason so pants-on-head moronic is absolutely beyond the pale.

By the way, I'm assuming that you (@maegal) are saying things like "I get that leaking personal chats is always a dodgy thing" because you're trying to be charitable to better persuade Nutomic. If you actually believe that nonsense, then you need to get your head screwed on correctly, too.

(* unless somebody hacks the server to obtain PMs that he wasn't a party to, which I assume is not what we're talking about here.)

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[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 23 points 3 months ago

Come over to hexbear. We also have the best emoji game and it's not even close.

sicko-jammin

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 21 points 3 months ago

This is a pretty reasonable opinion

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Hexbear is 100% the safest for trans people on the fediverse, I definitely suggest heading there if you want a safer place. Its admin'd by a lot of trans people and has an extremely active trans community with thousands of comments and messages per day

I'm on lemmy.ml because I like checking all trans spaces on the fediverse, but obviously with a transphobe in charge that makes that harder. Of course, that also means wading through a lot of horseshit from transphobic trolls, which I'm hoping to help with

[–] propter_hog@hexbear.net 24 points 3 months ago

I ventured out of hexbear once, just to see what other coms I was missing out on due to defederation. I quickly came back once I saw all of the "horseshit" as you mentioned. It just wasn't worth it for my psychological health.

[–] aleph@lemm.ee 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I swear, petty and vindictive banning is far worse on Lemmy than it ever was on Reddit, and particularly on ML instances.

If I were to indulge in a bit of armchair psychology, I'd say it is a side effect of venerating authoritarianism.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 14 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Maybe it's worse on ML instances. I honestly would start explaining it by looking at how much red-scare crap they go through.

But generally, I think you're right ... I've seen ban-happy mods too, and not on ML instances.

I'd say it's people learning how to manage decentralisation/federation. It gives people a greater sense of ownership and power and so you get some power tripping and a new source of drama and identity politics (based on instances). Kinda sad actually.

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[–] BuddyTheBeefalo@lemmy.ml 55 points 3 months ago (6 children)

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 31 points 3 months ago

🫡

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[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 46 points 3 months ago (2 children)

As someone that was there for Nutopic's defense of loli/CSAM I am disappointed this person is still an admin. No amount of bigotry should be tolerated just because the bigot is a "good" dev.

I say good in quotations because we have seen time and again how bias on the side of developers influences the way a platform developes wrt the concerns of oppressed groups. A prime example is one of the Mastadon devs failing to provide POC and other minority groups effective tools to combat bigotry and track offenders.

[–] SexUnderSocialism@hexbear.net 22 points 3 months ago

When I think of the Lemmy dev team, I'm always reminded of Mao's Combat Liberalism. They should really give that a good read.

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[–] Guntrigger@sopuli.xyz 40 points 3 months ago

How on earth is "Leaked private messages" a reason for banning. Absolutely an abuse of power and Streisand Effect is doing it's thing.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 33 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I'm just an occasional lurker here so I'm pretty out of the loop, but wouldn't it make more sense to just migrate to an instance without an openly transphobic admin? Isn't being able to do that supposed to be one of the big advantages of a federated service?

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 25 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

There's also the issue of Nutomic being a core Lemmy dev. While something can be said about detaching the art from the artist, having alleged* bigots be involved in the long-term planning of a project raises question of whether they'll let those opinions influence the direction of the project. For example, if somebody created a pull request to add pronouns to user profiles and it was rejected, would it be for a valid technical reason or bigotry with plausible deniability.

* I say this because I'm not looking to get instance banned at this time.

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 14 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

but wouldn’t it make more sense to just migrate to an instance without an openly transphobic admin

That's really just too passive for me at least, much prefer to occupy a space and make the transphobes leave.

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[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 32 points 3 months ago (2 children)

@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone @CARCOSA@hexbear.net @kristina@hexbear.net @ruud@lemmy.world @remington@beehaw.org @poVoq@slrpnk.net

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 3 months ago

Thanks. Dealt with on our end

[–] gruf@lemmy.ml 28 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

man "leaked private messages" is such a weak fucking excuse in the face of transphobia. @nutomic@lemmy.ml you realize you're just alienating a huge fucking number of comrades? not just trans people, but all those that rightfully stand with us too.

edit: nutomic you absolutely can come back from this if you don't double down. accept your shit, and work on it. and you know what that would be great to see, there's not enough of that in the world.

if not then @dessalines@lemmy.ml and other core devs, i think you have a tough decision to make. i absolutely do not envy you. though do keep in mind that handling this correctly will solidify even tighter community support behind the Lemmy project.

we need more good comrades behind ActivityPub development :p

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[–] booty@hexbear.net 27 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Removal as an admin isn't far enough. Needs a non-negotiable permaban. Unambiguous transphobia simply shouldn't be tolerated at all.

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Preface: I'm a cis guy, so my opinion may be very well invalid

I don't understand why there aren't more people arguing for this. Why on earth does a leftist community not instaban someone spewing transphobia, especially so if they're on a position of power?

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Apologies, I just woke and can’t quite sort all the details. But I’m on the side of anyone who promotes acceptance. I’m against anyone who is a bigot. I support safe and welcoming communities.

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[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 23 points 3 months ago

♫ EXCISE THE VULGAR MATERIALIST ♫

♫ FOR THE STRUGGLE OF THE CLASS ♫

♫ EXCISE THE VULGAR MATERIALIST ♫

♫ HE REFUSES TO CLEAN HIS ASS ♫

Photo of masked Real IRA members reading a message, except the Irish flag has been replaced with a trans flag.

[–] heggs_bayer@hexbear.net 19 points 3 months ago

This fuck should be kicked from the dev team as well as being removed as an admin. That'd be downright polite compared to what all transphobes deserve:

how-compelling i-am-adolf-hitler wall-flipped

[–] 4am@lemm.ee 19 points 3 months ago (9 children)

Not that I disagree with anything in this post but I would like to point out that Nutomic is, IIRC, the literal creator and dev of Lemmy itself.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 46 points 3 months ago (2 children)

afaik dessalines is the creator, nutomic is a co-creator and second largest contributor

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 22 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Though to be fair, there's a good chance that your pleas are not heeded here and that the admins do close ranks (I'm hoping some form of correction occurs, becuase it's pretty obviously a petty and personal ban). Point being, you and this community may want to (if you/they aren't already) think about what you want to do should they ignore you here.

Also, in the proof you provided ... it's important to note that they banned beaver from the whole instance. You'll see bans from a whole bunch of communities as well as a general in the modlog: https://lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=9782557

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 16 points 3 months ago

yeah, i'll edit that in

[–] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

It seems a strange distinction to say one person is a creator and another is the co-creator. Kind of by definition, that makes both people co-creators.

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[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 25 points 3 months ago

They're a core dev, yes, but not the creator AFAIU, that's dessalines who started the project. Nutomic joined pretty early though and is a major contributor to the project yes. I think they've been happy to counter each other's behaviour whenever it made sense in the past.

[–] WIIHAPPYFEW@hexbear.net 15 points 3 months ago

I thought it was Dessalines

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 12 points 3 months ago (3 children)

He can be the president dude. If you're a Transphobe little bitch, you deserve what's coming to you.

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