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submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by dead@hexbear.net to c/the_dunk_tank@hexbear.net

https://xcancel.com/TeamsterSOB/status/1813233768137662564

https://archive.is/Zzvlv

The C-suite long ago sold out the United States, shuttering factories in the homeland and gutting American jobs, while using the profits to push diversity, equity, and inclusion and the religion of the trans flag.

They have forged trade deals that led directly to the hemorrhaging of 4 million good jobs to China.

But as O’Brien correctly observed Monday night, that isn’t the Republican Party’s true tradition. There was a time when Republicans knew that American strength depends squarely on American workers—and their way of life: family, neighborhood, church, union hall. Ronald Reagan knew it.

China is ripping us off, and strong tariffs must be maintained and expanded.

Teamsters blaming transgender people, "DEI", and China for the suppression of the labor unions in America. Gives support to family, church, and Ronald Reagan.

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[-] MayoPete@hexbear.net 31 points 4 months ago

I don't understand this. Is there anyone decent in Teamsters at this point? Should we organize against this union? Why are these people so racist and transphobic? I don't get why humans can't just leave each other alone?

[-] BobDole@hexbear.net 26 points 4 months ago

smalls-unflinching ALU just affiliated with them lmao

[-] MayoPete@hexbear.net 21 points 4 months ago

Why do I feel like everything happening around me politically is trying to get me to kill myself?

Seriously, now unions are siding with the enemy? WTF am I supposed to do?

[-] BobDole@hexbear.net 23 points 4 months ago

American Unions sided with the enemy when they kicked out the communists in the 40’s (thanks Eleanor Roosevelt). AFL-CIA has never been on our side.

We gotta organize outside of the co-opted bullshit orgs. I would recommend IWW, but the GEB and GST are fucking hamstringing the org right now for petty personal power and profit.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Vladimir Lenin’s “Left-Wing” Communism: an Infantile Disorder

Should Revolutionaries Work in Reactionary Trade Unions?

...

In its work, the Party relies directly on the trade unions, which, according to the data of the last congress (April 1920), now have a membership of over four million and are formally non-Party. Actually, all the directing bodies of the vast majority of the unions, and primarily, of course, of the all-Russia general trade union centre or bureau (the All-Russia Central Council of Trade Unions), are made up of Communists and carry out all the directives of the Party. Thus, on the whole, we have a formally non-communist, flexible and relatively wide and very powerful proletarian apparatus, by means of which the Party is closely linked up with the class and the masses, and by means of which, under the leadership of the Party, the class dictatorship is exercised. Without close contacts with the trade unions, and without their energetic support and devoted efforts, not only in economic, but also in military affairs, it would of course have been impossible for us to govern the country and to maintain the dictatorship for two and a half months, let alone two and a half years. In practice, these very close contacts naturally call for highly complex and diversified work in the form of propaganda, agitation, timely and frequent conferences, not only with the leading trade union workers, but with influential trade union workers generally; they call for a determined struggle against the Mensheviks, who still have a certain though very small following to whom they teach all kinds of counter-revolutionary machinations, ranging from an ideological defence of (bourgeois) democracy and the preaching that the trade unions should be “independent” (independent of proletarian state power!) to sabotage of proletarian discipline, etc., etc.

We consider that contacts with the “masses” through the trade unions are not enough. In the course of our revolution, practical activities have given rise to such institutions as non-Party workers’ and peasants’ conferences, and we strive by every means to support, develop and extend this institution in order to be able to observe the temper of the masses, come closer to them, meet their requirements, promote the best among them to state posts, etc. Under a recent decree on the transformation of the People’s Commissariat of State Control into the Workers’ and Peasants’ Inspection, non-Party conferences of this kind have been empowered to select members of the State Control to carry out various kinds of investigations, etc.

Then, of course, all the work of the Party is carried on through the Soviets, which embrace the working masses irrespective of occupation.

Including baristas lmao

The district congresses of Soviets are democratic institutions, the like of which even the best of the democratic republics of the bourgeois world have never known; through these congresses (whose proceedings the Party endeavours to follow with the closest attention), as well as by continually appointing class-conscious workers to various posts in the rural districts, the proletariat exercises its role of leader of the peasantry, gives effect to the dictatorship of the urban proletariat wages a systematic struggle against the rich, bourgeois, exploiting and profiteering peasantry, etc.

Such is the general mechanism of the proletarian state power viewed “from above”, from the standpoint of the practical implementation of the dictatorship. We hope that the reader will understand why the Russian Bolshevik who has known this mechanism for twenty-five years and has seen it develop out of small, illegal and underground circles, cannot help regarding all this talk about “from above” or “from below”, about the dictatorship of leaders or the dictatorship of the masses, etc., as ridiculous and childish nonsense, something like discussing whether a man’s left leg or right arm is of greater use to him.

We cannot but regard as equally ridiculous and childish nonsense the pompous, very learned, and frightfully revolutionary disquisitions of the German Lefts to the effect that Communists cannot and should not work in reactionary trade unions, that it is permissible to turn down such work, that it is necessary to withdraw from the trade unions and create a brand-new and immaculate “Workers’ Union” invented by very pleasant (and, probably, for the most part very youthful) Communists, etc., etc.

Capitalism inevitably leaves socialism the legacy, on the one hand, of the old trade and craft distinctions among the workers, distinctions evolved in the course of centuries; on the other hand, trade unions, which only very slowly, in the course of years and years, can and will develop into broader industrial unions with less of the craft union about them (embracing entire industries, and not only crafts, trades and occupations), and later proceed, through these industrial unions, to eliminate the division of labour among people, to educate and school people, give them all-round development and an all-round training, so that they are able to do everything. Communism is advancing and must advance towards that goal, and will reach it, but only after very many years. To attempt in practice, today, to anticipate this future result of a fully developed, fully stabilised and constituted, fully comprehensive and mature communism would be like trying to teach higher mathematics to a child of four.

We can (and must) begin to build socialism, not with abstract human material, or with human material specially prepared by us, but with the human material bequeathed to us by capitalism. True, that is no easy matter, but no other approach to this task is serious enough to warrant discussion.

The trade unions were a tremendous step forward for the working class in the early days of capitalist development, inasmuch as they marked a transition from the workers’ disunity and helplessness to the rudiments of class organisation. When the revolutionary party of the proletariat, the highest form of proletarian class organisation, began to take shape (and the Party will not merit the name until it learns to weld the leaders into one indivisible whole with the class and the masses) the trade unions inevitably began to reveal certain reactionary features, a certain craft narrow-mindedness, a certain tendency to be non-political, a certain inertness, etc. However, the development of the proletariat did not, and could not, proceed anywhere in the world otherwise than through the trade unions, through reciprocal action between them and the party of the working class. The proletariat’s conquest of political power is a gigantic step forward for the proletariat as a class, and the Party must more than ever and in a new way, not only in the old, educate and guide the trade unions, at the same time bearing in mind that they are and will long remain an indispensable “school of communism” and a preparatory school that trains proletarians to exercise their dictatorship, an indispensable organisation of the workers for the gradual transfer of the management of the whole economic life of the country to the working class (and not to the separate trades), and later to all the working people.

In the sense mentioned above, a certain “reactionism” in the trade unions is inevitable under the dictatorship of the proletariat. Not to understand this means a complete failure to understand the fundamental conditions of the transition from capitalism to socialism.

Looking at you, Polandia.

It would be egregious folly to fear this “reactionism” or to try to evade or leap over it, for it would mean fearing that function of the proletarian vanguard which consists in training, educating, enlightening and drawing into the new life the most backward strata and masses of the working class and the peasantry. On the other hand, it would be a still graver error to postpone the achievement of the dictatorship of the proletariat until a time when there will not be a single worker with a narrow-minded craft outlook, or with craft and craft-union prejudices. The art of politics (and the Communist’s correct understanding of his tasks) consists in correctly gauging the conditions and the moment when the vanguard of the proletariat can successfully assume power, when it is able—during and after the seizure of power—to win adequate support from sufficiently broad strata of the working class and of the non-proletarian working masses, and when it is able thereafter to maintain, consolidate and extend its rule by educating, training and attracting ever broader masses of the working people.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Further. In countries more advanced than Russia, a certain reactionism in the trade unions has been and was bound to be manifested in a far greater measure than in our country. Our Mensheviks found support in the trade unions (and to some extent still do so in a small number of unions), as a result of the latter’s craft narrow-mindedness, craft selfishness and opportunism. The Mensheviks of the West have acquired a much firmer footing in the trade unions; there the craft-union, narrow-minded, selfish, case-hardened, covetous, and petty-bourgeois “labour aristocracy”, imperialist-minded, and imperialist-corrupted, has developed into a much stronger section than in our country.

That is incontestable.

The struggle against the Gomperses, and against the Jouhaux, Hendersons, Merrheims, Legiens and Co. in Western Europe is much more difficult than the struggle against our Mensheviks, who are an absolutely homogeneous social and political type. This struggle must be waged ruthlessly, and it must unfailingly be brought—as we brought it—to a point when all the incorrigible leaders of opportunism and social-chauvinism are completely discredited and driven out of the trade unions. Political power cannot be captured (and the attempt to capture it should not be made) until the struggle has reached a certain stage. This “certain stage” will be different in different countries and in different circumstances; it can be correctly gauged only by thoughtful, experienced and knowledgeable political leaders of the proletariat in each particular country. (In Russia the elections to the Constituent Assembly in November 1917, a few days after the proletarian revolution of October 25, 1917, were one of the criteria of the success of this struggle. In these elections the Mensheviks were utterly defeated; they received 700,000 votes—1,400,000 if the vote in Transcaucasia is added—as against 9,000,000 votes polled by the Bolsheviks. See my article, “The Constituent Assembly Elections and the Dictatorship of the Proletariat”,[24] in the Communist International[25] No. 7–8.)

We are waging a struggle against the “labour aristocracy” in the name of the masses of the workers and in order to win them over to our side; we are waging the struggle against the opportunist and social-chauvinist leaders in order to win the working class over to our side. It would be absurd to forget this most elementary and most self-evident truth. Yet it is this very absurdity that the German “Left” Communists perpetrate when, because of the reactionary and counter-revolutionary character of the trade union top leadership, they jump to the conclusion that . . . we must withdraw from the trade unions, refuse to work in them, and create new and artificial forms of labour organisation! This is so unpardonable a blunder that it is tantamount to the greatest service Communists could render the bourgeoisie. Like all the opportunist, social-chauvinist, and Kautskyite trade union leaders, our Mensheviks are nothing but “agents of the bourgeoisie in the working-class movement” (as we have always said the Mensheviks are), or “labour lieutenants of the capitalist class”, to use the splendid and profoundly true expression of the followers of Daniel De Leon in America. To refuse to work in the reactionary trade unions means leaving the insufficiently developed or backward masses of workers under the influence of the reactionary leaders, the agents of the bourgeoisie, the labour aristocrats, or “workers who have become completely bourgeois” (cf. Engels’s letter to Marx in 1858 about the British workers[26]).

This ridiculous “theory” that Communists should not work in reactionary trade unions reveals with the utmost clarity the frivolous attitude of the “Left” Communists towards the question of influencing the “masses”, and their misuse of clamour about the “masses”. If you want to help the “masses” and win the sympathy and support of the “masses”, you should not fear difficulties, or pinpricks, chicanery, insults and persecution from the “leaders” (who, being opportunists and social-chauvinists, are in most cases directly or indirectly connected with the bourgeoisie and the police), but must absolutely work wherever the masses are to be found. You must be capable of any sacrifice, of overcoming the greatest obstacles, in order to carry on agitation and propaganda systematically, perseveringly, persistently and patiently in those institutions, societies and associations—even the most reactionary—in which proletarian or semi-proletarian masses are to be found. The trade unions and the workers’ co-operatives (the latter sometimes, at least) are the very organisations in which the masses are to be found. According to figures quoted in the Swedish paper Folkets Dagblad Politiken of March 10, 1920, the trade union membership in Great Britain increased from 5,500,000 at the end of 1917 to 6,600,000 at the end of 1918, an increase of 19 per cent. Towards the close of 1919, the membership was estimated at 7,500,000. I have not got the corresponding figures for France and Germany to hand, but absolutely incontestable and generally known facts testify to a rapid rise in the trade union membership in these countries too.

These facts make crystal clear something that is confirmed by thousands of other symptoms, namely, that class-consciousness and the desire for organisation are growing among the proletarian masses, among the rank and file, among the backward elements. Millions of workers in Great Britain, France and Germany are for the first time passing from a complete lack of organisation to the elementary, lowest, simplest, and (to those still thoroughly imbued with bourgeois-democratic prejudices) most easily comprehensible form of organisation, namely, the trade unions; yet the revolutionary but imprudent Left Communists stand by, crying out “the masses”, “the masses!” but refusing to work within the trade unions, on the pretext that they are “reactionary”, and invent a brand-new, immaculate little “Workers’ Union”, which is guiltless of bourgeois-democratic prejudices and innocent of craft or narrow-minded craft-union sins, a union which, they claim, will be (!) a broad organisation. “Recognition of the Soviet system and the dictatorship” will be the only (!) condition of membership. (See the passage quoted above.)

It would be hard to imagine any greater ineptitude or greater harm to the revolution than that caused by the “Left” revolutionaries! Why, if we in Russia today, after two and a half years of unprecedented victories over the bourgeoisie of Russia and the Entente, were to make “recognition of the dictatorship” a condition of trade union membership, we would be doing a very foolish thing, damaging our influence among the masses, and helping the Mensheviks. The task devolving on Communists is to convince the backward elements, to work among them, and not to fence themselves off from them with artificial and childishly “Left” slogans.

There can be no doubt that the Gomperses, the Hendersons, the Jonhaux and the Legiens are very grateful to those “Left” revolutionaries who, like the German opposition “on principle” (heaven preserve us from such “principles”!), or like some of the revolutionaries in the American Industrial Workers of the World[27] advocate quitting the reactionary trade unions and refusing to work in them. These men, the “leaders” of opportunism, will no doubt resort to every device of bourgeois diplomacy and to the aid of bourgeois governments, the clergy, the police and the courts, to keep Communists out of the trade unions, oust them by every means, make their work in the trade unions as unpleasant as possible, and insult, bait and persecute them.

We must be able to stand up to all this, agree to make any sacrifice, and even—if need be—to resort to various stratagems, artifices and illegal methods, to evasions and subterfuges, as long as we get into the trade unions, remain in them, and carry on communist work within them at all costs. Under tsarism we had no “legal opportunities” whatsoever until 1905. However, when Zubatov, agent of the secret police, organised Black-Hundred workers’ assemblies and workingmen’s societies for the purpose of trapping revolutionaries and combating them, we sent members of our Party to these assemblies and into these societies (I personally remember one of them, Comrade Babushkin, a leading St. Petersburg factory worker, shot by order of the tsar’s generals in 1906). They established contacts with the masses, were able to carry on their agitation, and succeeded in wresting workers from the influence of Zubatov’s agents. [*4] Of course, in Western Europe, which is imbued with most deep-rooted legalistic, constitutionalist and bourgeois-democratic prejudices, this is more difficult of achievement. However, it can and must be carried out, and systematically at that.

The Executive Committee of the Third International must, in my opinion, positively condemn, and call upon the next congress of the Communist International to condemn both the policy of refusing to work in reactionary trade unions in general (explaining in detail why such refusal is unwise, and what extreme harm it does to the cause of the proletarian revolution) and, in particular, the line of conduct of some members of the Communist Party of Holland, who—whether directly or indirectly, overtly or covertly, wholly or partly, it does not matter—have supported this erroneous policy. The Third International must break with the tactics of the Second International, it must not evade or play down points at issue, but must pose them in a straightforward fashion. The whole truth has been put squarely to the “Independents”; the whole truth must likewise be put squarely to the “Left” Communists.

[-] BobDole@hexbear.net 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Hey, maybe don’t use the # so much, it makes it unreadable on mobile. Also, maybe link to the work instead and quote the most relevant bits instead of quoting such long tracts.

Also, yeah I phrased that wrong. Sorry, I’m recovering from covid right now and I’m not at 100%. I meant that we should have organizations outside of them, not that we should ignore them.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago

The links in the second sentence lol but you have a point

[-] BobDole@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago

I always respect your posting rat-salute

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago

As I respect yours comrade Bob Dole rat-salute-2

[-] combat_brandonism@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

or like some of the revolutionaries in the American Industrial Workers of the World[27] advocate quitting the reactionary trade unions and refusing to work in them

At least that's changed in the last century. I believe dual carding is encouraged, secretly if the business union forbids it. Mostly though the wobblies today focus on shops that don't receive any organizing support from business unions.

Sort of the same way Lenin calls for dual power, workers looking to take control of their business union need a way to organize within it independently of its power structures if the union is wholly coopted by class traitors. Every high profile case where rank-and-file have gained power in american unions in the last ~decade (RWU, UAW, etc.) has featured some dual organizing like that.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

IWW has an internal discipline management problem that devolves the entire organization into factionalist infighting due to the fact that the only measure of membership discipline they have is through expulsion from the IWW.

This also doesn't mention the fact that the IWW is a hollowed out shell of its former glory and has only recently begun clawing itself back from irrelevance in the labor organizing field meaning that the IWW is fundamentally not where the working class is located. Dual unionism is an alright thing if you think you can learn something from them, but I'd say you'll have better luck studying Foster.

[-] BobDole@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago

I would agree about the internal discipline problem. It’s like the farthest thing from a democratic centralist org as can be, and my local branch is infested with real life anarchobidenists, but it’s the only active local org that isn’t trots or CPUSA.

I hate where I live lmao

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You have my sympathy, I may be surrounded by jack diddly shit up here which has its own problems but I can't imagine being surrounded by some of the most annoying libs in America and having to try and materially create some good wherever you're at.

[-] combat_brandonism@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yeah I mean the ideology at its root is fundamentally anarchist so if you're looking for demcent you're barking up the wrong tree. But if you work in an industry that's not already well organized, they're probably your best choice for learning how to organize your workplace. The DSA's been doing a lot of work there recently too and deserve a shoutout. The only other alternative is to reach out to a business union, which is how you get the Teamsters representing prison guards, the AFT organizing a hospital, etc. And those business unions are better than nothing but you'll still need to do your own organizing to counteract the likely comprador leadership of the union (the whole impetus for this thread lol).

Wobblies are big tent tho, there's plenty of anarchobidenists and a few MLs too. But like the labor leaders Lenin mentioned at the top of your cited section of "Left-Wing" Communism, the MLs who are members are there for workplace organizing and not trying to make the org itself demcent:

Thus, on the whole, we have a formally non-communist, flexible and relatively wide and very powerful proletarian apparatus, by means of which the Party is closely linked up with the class and the masses, and by means of which, under the leadership of the Party, the class dictatorship is exercised.

Worth noting that the union leadership Lenin talks about didn't just turn Party member overnight. It's one of the outcomes of pursuing a dual power strategy for a long period of time.

due to the factionalism being so bad in the IWW that it resulted in their internal elections being mandated by law to have federal oversight over allegations of fraud due to them joining the NLRB

I'd appreciate you removing this FUD comrade. It's both not how the NLRB works nor how internal wobbly elections work (as much as they do), and it's borderline fedjacketing from a place of admitted ignorance.

Internal wobbly politics are shit, not defending that. I ignore it as much as possible. But the most active membership is focused on shop floor organizing, and on the whole it's a good org for that purpose. Which is why I mentioned them. They're not a replacement for party organizing, nor do they claim to be, and that wasn't the purpose of my comment. Just noting that it's a marked difference from the IWW at the height (or just after) of its power that Lenin was critiquing.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 3 points 4 months ago

I'd appreciate you removing this FUD comrade. It's both not how the NLRB works nor how internal wobbly elections work (as much as they do), and it's borderline fedjacketing from a place of admitted ignorance.

I'll grant that, as it's second-hand information drawn purely from my swiss cheese memorybanks.

Thus, on the whole, we have a formally non-communist, flexible and relatively wide and very powerful proletarian apparatus, by means of which the Party is closely linked up with the class and the masses, and by means of which, under the leadership of the Party, the class dictatorship is exercised.

Worth noting that the union leadership Lenin talks about didn't just turn Party member overnight. It's one of the outcomes of pursuing a dual power strategy for a long period of time.

I'd point out that such a dual power strategy is the result of a communist party pursuing it for a long period of time and not

The DSA's been doing a lot of work there recently too and deserve a shoutout. The only other alternative is to reach out to a business union, which is how you get the Teamsters representing prison guards, the AFT organizing a hospital, etc. And those business unions are better than nothing but you'll still need to do your own organizing to counteract the likely comprador leadership of the union (the whole impetus for this thread lol).

relying on social democrats or unions that've had their ranks drained and stripped of their Reds for decades - which while DSA should get a pat on the head for their accomplishments in the field, they also deserve to get their nose rubbed in their own turds with regards to their ties to the TDU.

Ultimately this discussion boils down to Communists need to be joining or building or expanding unions and working their way up their power structures to the best of their ability in order to reorientate them as proletarian structures. Something that's not accomplished by going ick at the currently existing structures and running off to build your own unions and believe your left-sounding phrasemongering will suddenly inspire union workers to flood over to you. You get in there and kick the foxes out of the henhouse and slam the door on their asses

[-] combat_brandonism@hexbear.net 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

100-com to all of that. The DSA shoutout was just for helping workers ignored by shit business unions organize, they get no credit for

Communists need to be joining or building or expanding unions and working their way up their power structures to the best of their ability in order to reorientate them as proletarian structures.

The discussion of the current state of the IWW just goes to me pointing out that a notable difference from a century ago is that they're a small part of the movement to, "get in there and kick the foxes out of the henhouse and slam the door on their asses," and have largely abandoned 'left-sounding phrasemongering to suddenly inspire union workers to flood over to them'.

Ty for removing the FUD. The IWW is far from perfect but they are largely a good org when it comes to organizing for shop floor power.

[-] combat_brandonism@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago

the GEB and GST are fucking hamstringing the org right now for petty personal power and profit

feels like that's been the case the whole time I've been a member. I checked out of anything besides the organizing stuff after the fiasco that was the 2020 convention

[-] BobDole@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago

They haven’t sent remittance checks to 40 branches this whole year. There’s been one GOB (General Organizing Bulletin) sent out this year, the March GOB, and it was sent in June.

[-] combat_brandonism@hexbear.net 4 points 4 months ago

Yeah I've seen some grumbling in the group chat, esp. about the GOB, but I just tune it out for my own mental health.

[-] Barx@hexbear.net 3 points 4 months ago

FRSO organizes Teamsters (though they are pretty small). There are good Teamsters. Most Teamsters are incoherent liberals like everyone else and should be a focus of socislist agitation. Logistics unions are the most strategic ones to target given how the Imperialist economy operates.

Teamsters have had openly reactionary and anti-socialist sentiments for decades. Condescending or incompetent campaigns targeting them backfire and make this worse. We should be agitating from the bottom up via class struggle and political education.

this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2024
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