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this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2024
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Old Joe's got everybody mad at him. Elites. Big money donors. Etc. Everybody it seems bur Democratic voters. Polls are the same as before the debate.
Because those votes are mainly votes against Trump and even a trash can would probably pull in similar protest votes. All the more reason the idea of a better candidate that people are even slightly more enthusiastic over could push those numbers up
Yep. I'm voting against Trump, not for Biden. Trump could run against a rock for all I care.
Therein lies the rub. There aren't any democrats that poll better.
No other democrat is campaigning though...
True. However, national exposure is a large factor and even if there was someone vetted, they still will walk unintroduced on the national stage.
Factually untrue.
This has Biden down 6 points. And Kamala only down 2.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html
But your comparing Biden as "the candidate" with the DNC and millions of dollars of campaign against people that haven't even said they're willing to run...
Obviously anyone else that becomes the candidate would see a significant boost to their numbers both short and long term.
But others also are polling closer (better) than Biden...
That's 4 people polling better than Biden in the last couple days....
Weird you haven't seen it yet.
You realize the Venn diagram of "Candidates the DNC financiers support" and "Candidates that would get more support than Joe Biden" doesn't actually overlap, right?
If campaign financing is the primary consideration then we deserve the shit storm that's coming.
The press constantly talks about the so-called "money primary." No Dem has ever objected to such phrasing.
The money primary is the actual primary in our system of governance.
We the plebs only get to pick one of the pre-selected billionaire champions.
Yeah.
The vast majority willing to vote for Biden, would vote "blue no matter who".
Which means logically, switching candidates is the smartest plan if all that matters is stopping trump.
But a very small, very vocal group of Biden voters (and even Biden) seem to be lying about what's most important. I still can't believe Biden really said he wouldn't care if he lost.
If they can't get Biden. A Republican is their second pick.
They just won't admit it.
But it's the only logical reason people would be insisting it has to be Biden. Just like Joe, they don't care if trump wins.
Personally i think they're just as scared as we are. They're just too fucking old to have a realistic picture of the political landscape. Gen X is going to get us all killed.
Bruh, gen X isn't in charge of shit...
You know Biden and a lot of party leaders are still the generation ahead of Baby Boomers, right?
The youngest boomers are 60, how many party leaders calling the shots are significantly under 60?
The party leaders aren't the ones preventing a move on Biden. Basic support for Biden is tantamount to no action at this point but they are generally taking a wait and see approach. Im mostly taking about the political influencers telling you not to believe your eyes and ears.
Any candidate but Harris would not have access to the money already raised.
Historically, the candidate who raises the most money wins (ignoring 2016).
Meaning the only option the democrats have is to put Harris at the top of the ticket.
What the fuck are you talking about? You just decided to lie like that? That's wild
? What is this in reference to?
My bad, I typed up a whole response to you but apparently never sent it and now it's gone. Here's a brief reply
My criticism was about the claim that only Harris could use the campaign money. It's ridiculous to think they wouldn't support the DNC's candidate. Besides that, there are tons PACs that can use the money they've received from donors for basically whatever they want.
From what I just read yesterday, the majority of money was donated to the Biden/Harris campaign, not the DNC. Harris has to be on the ticket for all of that money to follow through, otherwise you are looking at a very small percentage of money transferring.
For instance, when Sanders dropped out, none of the money he raised automatically went to Clinton or Biden. Campaigns still have to follow campaign contribution laws when they donate to others.
If Biden drops out (I am leading toward he shouldn't but fully side with the argument that he should if we lived in a perfect world), Harris has to be on the ticket or Trump is almost certainly the victor based off history alone.
Fair enough. I agree that that if it's in her/biden's name maybe normal campaign financing laws apply. That wasn't what I was hearing, but I won't pretend I looked into it in more detail.
That said, there are tons of ways to donate money from one party to another without breaking any laws - that's kind of the whole problem we have. There's no reason to think Harris keeps that money for her own campaign if we were in the scenario where we're running a third person that isn't either of them. It certainly isn't a reason to end the discussion for getting us at least a fighting chance.
I understand how scary this is and how foreign the situation we're in feels, but I don't think the answer is necessarily to look for the safest option (especially if that means an old man with blatant dementia).
In a perfect world, we'd fill the streets and force them to put that money in a transparent account and use it to fund a candidate people actually support (one that support public financing of campaigns and all the end unnecessary spending and legalized bribery)
The way I look at it is, if Biden is as bad as we think he is, Kamala has already been acting as president. If we vote for him and he can't finish his term, than nothing of note would actually be changed.
The question is, does she need him on the ticket to beat Trump?
What did they lie about?
Ouch. I typed up a whole reply to them but apparently never sent it and now it's gone. Sigh. Oh well. I'll reply to them next
My criticism was about their claim that only Harris could use the campaign money. It's ridiculous to think that they wouldn't support the DNC's candidate. Besides that, there are tons PACs that can use the money they've received from donors for basically whatever they want.
The reply was maybe a bit harsh, in hindsight, but I keep seeing that parroted around like it's undoubtedly true. It's clearly just being repeated and not said with any significant critical thought. I mean, if we had a brokered convention it would be all hands on deck at the DNC.
Polls were not good before the debate. Maybe it's too early to say what the effect will be but here's the second report I've seen saying it's getting worse.
To be fair, having those particular groups mad at you should be considered a good thing.
But it's the opposite of what's happening...
Can you name a single party leader or billionaire who has stopped supporting Biden this election?
Like, I know some party members and some donors have...
But no party leaders have said he needs to step down, and while some donors have, they're relatively tiny compared to the actual big money donors.
Biden's billionaires probably want to replace him with an even more unhinged capitalist who can lie his ass off to the plebs. Who could that be? Uh-huh! It'd be Gavin Newsom!
The polls are worse, by a lot. He is absolutely sinking and not coming back.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/poll-debate-biden-trump.html
What are you talking about, before the debate he was even now he's down by 2 points and his approval rating is hitting new lows. For context he was up by 8 points this time last cycle to win a close election in November. Joe is falling behind and people don't like him, ignoring people's dislike for a candidate is how we lost 2016.