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submitted 5 months ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to c/science_memes@mander.xyz

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[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 30 points 5 months ago

The last comments in the image are exactly right.

It bothers me when I screw up and someone says "I fixed that for you" without explaining how I screwed things up, or how they fixed it.

If I'm wrong, I get it. I'm not always right, nobody can be right 100% of the time, IMO, that's impossible. But when I'm wrong, let me learn so I can avoid being wrong in the same way twice.

IMO, schools have failed us, they teach us what we should know but don't encourage us to always be curious and always be learning. It's okay to make mistakes, and it's okay to be wrong. What's not okay is never learning from your mistakes, and being so stubborn that when you are wrong, you double down on being wrong instead of seeking more information so you can be correct next time.

Being wrong is always condemned. You get low grades, you fail and get held back in some cases.... It's been rare that any teacher I've ever had would review anything from a test after its over. A very small number went back and said "a lot of people had trouble with x question from the test, here's the answer and this is why it's the correct answer". IMO, that should be way more common.... Review the test after its over and let the class know that low marks are not the end, they're a wonderful beginning to learning. If you know what you don't know and you have even the smallest amount of ability and willingness to improve, with the addition of opportunities to learn that, then you will always succeed.

Be successful. Get a bunch of shit wrong.

[-] hydrospanner@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago

I'm glad you addressed the aversion to being wrong because I think that's part of the core of what's causing so many problems in America today (and maybe other places, but I can only speak to my own familiarity).

I feel like as a society we have created an environment where we demonstrate and reinforce to children from like kindergarten onward that the worst thing you can possibly do is be wrong. Someone who is always right is seen as smart, capable...in short, a winner.

Conversely, if you're ever wrong, that completely and permanently undoes your entire argument/position and not only that, but you're branded as unreliable/untrustworthy, uninformed, stupid, dishonest, or naive.

We expect perfection in correctness, and while being right is the expectation, being wrong is a permanent black mark that is treated as a more serious negative than being right is considered as a positive. Nobody just assumes that if you're right about one thing that you'll be right about all things, but if you get something wrong, there's a very real shift toward double-checking or verifying anything else that comes after.

We even tease friends, family, and children for mispronouncing words or singing incorrect lyrics. Basically, being incorrect is so stigmatized that we reinforce to everyone, children and adults alike, that it's better to not even try...not even make an attempt or join into a conversation...than to risk being wrong. When someone is wrong we use words like "admit" like it's a crime, or admit defeat...and that just creates an environment where nobody is ever encouraged to speak up about anything for fear of (gasp!) being wrong.

And now we're coming full circle on this at the highest levels, with our leaders being blatantly and objectively wrong...and absolutely dead set on avoiding having to admit that at all costs, setting a precedent that has oozed into even casual discourse among regular people. It seems like it used to be that being wrong was bad enough, but to dig in and refuse to admit it was even worse...lately it seems that admitting you were wrong is now even worse than doubling down on it...so now we have a situation where we can't even agree on basic facts because one or more sides will be wrong but would rather insist on their position than just acknowledge they were incorrect.

[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You're hitting on every point I could make.

My advice to anyone reading, and wanting to be okay in being wrong, the first step is admitting you don't know something. Even if it's something you should know. For example if you're considered to be an "expert" or at least very knowledgeable about something and someone asks you about that specific thing, but it's not something you know, avoid making things up, or trying to derive an answer from what you do know. Explain that you're not sure what the right answer is, but you'll figure it out, then do some research to figure it out. Don't go off the cuff and start informing people of what you presume it is based on what you know, without knowing for sure.

The next step is when someone contradicts what you believe to be true, hear them out, then do whatever lookups and research you need to figure out if they're right, or you're right. Don't immediately tell them they're wrong, just listen, then find the truth and go from there.

The other thing I do, is I stay away from absolute statements as much as I can. Instead of saying that this thing I know is absolute and true, I preface it with qualifying statements like "I believe...." Eg, "I believe you need to use that switch over there to do the thing" rather than "use that switch to do the thing". If you're wrong then it was qualified as an uncertainty which can make a correction sting that much less.

Finally, always pursue the truth above all else. The point shouldn't be whether you are right or wrong, the point is getting and giving true information to/from others. When getting seemingly true information from someone, trust but verify anything you're told before passing that information along, whenever possible.

Always be learning, always be seeking the truth, always verify the statements of others. After a while, you'll find that you're right far more often than when you're wrong... Having that kind of track record will help in your ability to handle the times that you're found to be wrong and you'll have a much easier time with it.

The whole thing is a process, so don't beat yourself up over it. You will falter and catch yourself doing things wrong and making assumptions and providing information you later determine to be wrong. It will happen. Learn the correct information and move forward. When you lose, don't lose the lesson.

There's a ton more that I could say on the matter, but I think that's the core points.

For me, I got a huge wake-up call while working at a large software provider doing end user support. I went to the escalation team and asked them about a problem, and they asked me about some of the details, when I provided them, they questioned "did you verify this? Or did you just take the customers word for it?".... I didn't verify the information. They sent me back to verify the situation before they would engage on the matter, and IIRC, it ended up being one of the assumptions that the end user, or I made, which wasn't configured correctly, that caused the problem. I managed to avoid needing escalation. From then on, "trust but verify" was a constant mantra. I've been growing and learning ever since.

[-] hydrospanner@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

More great points, I agree.

Also...it might just be me, but I find that I subconsciously have more respect for a person, both as a person and as a reliable source of information, if they present things with qualification, as you suggest. To me, it's a sign of humility and an indication of an appreciation for the complexity of any given subject if someone is knowledgeable enough to both field questions and demonstrate proficiency while also being careful to qualify and delineate between what's fact, what's generally accepted, what's their understanding, and what's their opinion or guess.

I listened to a podcast last year about TOP GUN instructors and the grueling process they go through to become subject matter experts in their specific subject, and one of the things that stuck out to me was that they're less worried about being right all the time and more worried about three qualities: being knowledgeable, approachable, and humble...with the understanding that with those three qualities, you're going to eventually get to the point where you're almost always right, with the added benefit that you've trained yourself to remove ego from the equation, so you're less likely to fall prey to the trap of clinging to bad information/belief/assumption just because you want to look correct.