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this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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I can't imagine this ever settling down. How could they ever become neutral let alone good neighbours ever after all this that Israel has been doing to Palestine during the past half year??!
It was bad before but this is unforgivable!
The end goal is near-total eradication of the natives. Similar to native americans in the U.S. Israel is a settler state, much like the U.S was, and actively drove the natives out of their homes. They're almost done though, we're seeing some of the final acts of the ethnic cleansing/genocide.
Once there are barely any left, they'll feign sympathy to garner support, and that'll be that. Another win for imperialist settler states. Nothing unique or special about it.
I'm sure there are plenty of Israelis that want to do this even if they won't admit it to themselves but this isn't the final anything. The IDF has killed around 37,000 Palestinians out of ~2.3 million. That's horrible but nowhere near the "barely any left" stage.
A genocide on the scale of millions takes industrial effort to accomplish. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but given Israel's reliance on foreign aid, current industrial capacity, and political position, it seems unlikely. My guess is Israel will take some more territory and the conflict (kinda tough to call the IDF bombing almost exclusively civilians a war) will peter out. Foreign aid will be allowed back in and Israel will put its mask back on.
Personally, I don't see how this doesn't end with half the middle east actively going to war with Israel if they don't stop soon. The only thing really keeping them safe is the US, and Israel has burned a lot of political capital here. Their leaders are awful, power-hungry shits, but they're not stupid. If they don't try to rebuild some of that capital, there's every chance that Israel loses its lifeline.
What comes years after things die down, I don't know. Gazan sentiment towards Israel was already overwhelmingly negative before this, but the IDF has never done anything on this scale before. I don't think Israel can allow Gaza any type of self-governance for decades after this. This is beyond even post-WW2 Japan levels of destruction, and unlike Japan every nation around them is still on their side.
They've already bombed the vast majority of Gaza and resettled people, and the next step is almost certainly another expansion of the settler state of Israel.
Most of the millions of people that live in Gaza have been resettled into a very small area. Whether Israel decides to nuke them or force them into neighboring countries as refugees is irrelevant to their end goal of settling the territory. The Palestinians are just "rats" that need to be removed.
I'm sure they'd prefer to nuke them and just get rid of their problem once and for all; a final solution of sorts. However they do have limited political capital in this conflict, and nuking the remaining civilians does have the potential to negative impact U.S-Isrsel relations. So there's a real chance they opt for just pushing the "human animals" out of the territories.
It will be the ultimate irony when Israel finally carries out its own Holocaust of millions.
The actual death toll is likely 200,000+ over the last 8 months.
The 37,000 number is only bodies that have been identified, cases of starvation and disease are also excluded.
"The entire population in Gaza is experiencing high levels of acute food shortage, with around 1.1 million people or half the population living through catastrophic food insecurity, according to the report by the UN-backed Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC)."
And this is from march!!!
Not sure where that 200k number is from. The article you linked doesn't say that and I haven't seen a number that high reported anywhere myself. All the info I have seen bounds the estimates between 30k and 50k killed, either through active combat or through disease/malnourishment/injury.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker
https://accuracy.org/release/ralph-nader-estimates-200000-palestinians-killed-in-gaza/
Ralph Nader saying that he thinks the death toll is over 200k is not a reasonable source to cite. The 30-50k estimates from most sources are already appallingly high. There's an active contingent of Ben Shapiro types trying to convince everyone what Israel is doing is fine, don't give them ammo to cast doubt on the official death count.
The death toll was frozen for weeks and 1.1 million people have been experiencing acute famine as well as the entire 2.3 million having no access to healthcare in the middle of an active genocide. The official estimates are incredibly low.
I accept the official death count but to ignore what they aren't counting, which I've listed above also does a disservice to the realities on the ground.
Since November we've been hearing every day how "famine is imminent."
Still haven't seen it.
# UN EXPERTS PREVENTED FROM GATHERING EVIDENCE TO DECLARE A FAMINE IN GAZA AS PALESTINIANS STARVE
and you certainly won't since you're obviously not there, in Gaza
Maybe that’s because people more concerned than yourself have been risking their lives and going to great effort to inject aid to keep it away for one more day, one more day.
Nah it's because Israel has been letting the aid in through their border and steadily ramping up capacity.
In your imagined scenario, why does Israel let any food in at all?
The US and international pressure. So optics basically. Kind of like how they made 'efforts' at peace and a two-state solution over the past decades just to show they were trying. Those deals involved things like all the Isreali settlers remaining in Palestine, continuing to live under Isreali laws despite living in Palestine and for the IDF to be the defense and security forces for both countries. Or things like all the arable land going to Isreal and Palestine getting cut up into multiple enclaves.
Isreal has been obstructing aid from crossing the border for the longest time. The US even started airdropping stuff in because the Isreal was disrupting aid convoys from crossing into Palestine. They even had to start building a pier because Isreal wasn't letting in any aid. After a lot of international pressure Isreal relented and stopped deliberately screwing up the aid convoys. Except the moment that happened settlers suddenly started knowing when and where every aid convoy was crossing into Palestine and started attacking them.
Modern day trail of tears... except the killing is easier.
Ya know, it sucks that you’re right.
It's easy. Hamas can be destroyed and the surviving 99% of Gaza can move on with their lives.
The 35,000 Gazans killed already comprise 1.6% of the population. The 85,000 injured comprises another 4% of the population. Thousands of children have already experienced severe malnutrition that will lead to stunting and lifelong effects. So no, 99% of Gaza will not be able to "move on."
Rounding difference aside, yes, the stunting and lifelong effects of malnutrition especially in a population as adolescent as Gaza, which existed prior to the present state of war, too, right?
Also, yes, sometimes when a state actor, or even a quasi state actor, as it is, starts a war, it exacerbates existing problems with food security. The singular reason that Gaza didn't have famine rival to that of Darfur prior to the current state of War is the generosity of the West enabled Hamas to plunder Gaza for generations such that Gaza's primary export became international terror.
Hamas caused and continuez to cause the present state of war by starting it and then refusing to surrender or follow any international law whatsoever. Criminal enterprises have no legitimate right to statehood, or to make demands for diplomacy. It's almost as if the present state of things is exactly what Hamas hoped for on October 6.
Gaza should have people in charge that will not take billions of dollars from Iran and other "Group of Friends" countries and use every penny to build the most elaborate tunnel system the world has ever known while it's people grow up malnourished as you've described, and instead spend some of it on food infrastructure. This is what people mean when they talk about UNRWA and certain NGOs being an obstruction to peace in Gaza; the people of Gaza wouldn't tolerate, let alone aid and abet Hamas, if they had to bear the actual consequences of Hamas, such as the food insecurity invited by Hamas by having turning not just its air, water, and land ports of entry into instruments of a criminal enterprise, but every school, hospital, and apartment building along 450 miles of tunnels, too, decade after decade.
How many more millions of Gazan's should live and die malnourished anyway under an actual far right fascist regime?
Oh my mistake, 98.4%, not 99%.
Give me a break with the hysterics.
# Israel's plan to eradicate Hamas is an impossible goal
Hamas expert or Hamas synoathizer? Ridiculous take. It's a criminal organization and can and will be eliminated. Israel is going to do it or it's going to continue to blockade and force Gaza to do it itself. Surely the people living there are getting tired of how it's going under Hamas's leadership.
Yes, ridiculous,
Oh fuck off
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