610
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
610 points (94.1% liked)
World News
39019 readers
722 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I'm sure there are plenty of Israelis that want to do this even if they won't admit it to themselves but this isn't the final anything. The IDF has killed around 37,000 Palestinians out of ~2.3 million. That's horrible but nowhere near the "barely any left" stage.
A genocide on the scale of millions takes industrial effort to accomplish. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but given Israel's reliance on foreign aid, current industrial capacity, and political position, it seems unlikely. My guess is Israel will take some more territory and the conflict (kinda tough to call the IDF bombing almost exclusively civilians a war) will peter out. Foreign aid will be allowed back in and Israel will put its mask back on.
Personally, I don't see how this doesn't end with half the middle east actively going to war with Israel if they don't stop soon. The only thing really keeping them safe is the US, and Israel has burned a lot of political capital here. Their leaders are awful, power-hungry shits, but they're not stupid. If they don't try to rebuild some of that capital, there's every chance that Israel loses its lifeline.
What comes years after things die down, I don't know. Gazan sentiment towards Israel was already overwhelmingly negative before this, but the IDF has never done anything on this scale before. I don't think Israel can allow Gaza any type of self-governance for decades after this. This is beyond even post-WW2 Japan levels of destruction, and unlike Japan every nation around them is still on their side.
The actual death toll is likely 200,000+ over the last 8 months.
The 37,000 number is only bodies that have been identified, cases of starvation and disease are also excluded.
"The entire population in Gaza is experiencing high levels of acute food shortage, with around 1.1 million people or half the population living through catastrophic food insecurity, according to the report by the UN-backed Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC)."
And this is from march!!!
Not sure where that 200k number is from. The article you linked doesn't say that and I haven't seen a number that high reported anywhere myself. All the info I have seen bounds the estimates between 30k and 50k killed, either through active combat or through disease/malnourishment/injury.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker
https://accuracy.org/release/ralph-nader-estimates-200000-palestinians-killed-in-gaza/
Ralph Nader saying that he thinks the death toll is over 200k is not a reasonable source to cite. The 30-50k estimates from most sources are already appallingly high. There's an active contingent of Ben Shapiro types trying to convince everyone what Israel is doing is fine, don't give them ammo to cast doubt on the official death count.
The death toll was frozen for weeks and 1.1 million people have been experiencing acute famine as well as the entire 2.3 million having no access to healthcare in the middle of an active genocide. The official estimates are incredibly low.
I accept the official death count but to ignore what they aren't counting, which I've listed above also does a disservice to the realities on the ground.
Since November we've been hearing every day how "famine is imminent."
Still haven't seen it.
# UN EXPERTS PREVENTED FROM GATHERING EVIDENCE TO DECLARE A FAMINE IN GAZA AS PALESTINIANS STARVE
and you certainly won't since you're obviously not there, in Gaza
Maybe that’s because people more concerned than yourself have been risking their lives and going to great effort to inject aid to keep it away for one more day, one more day.
Nah it's because Israel has been letting the aid in through their border and steadily ramping up capacity.
In your imagined scenario, why does Israel let any food in at all?
The US and international pressure. So optics basically. Kind of like how they made 'efforts' at peace and a two-state solution over the past decades just to show they were trying. Those deals involved things like all the Isreali settlers remaining in Palestine, continuing to live under Isreali laws despite living in Palestine and for the IDF to be the defense and security forces for both countries. Or things like all the arable land going to Isreal and Palestine getting cut up into multiple enclaves.
Isreal has been obstructing aid from crossing the border for the longest time. The US even started airdropping stuff in because the Isreal was disrupting aid convoys from crossing into Palestine. They even had to start building a pier because Isreal wasn't letting in any aid. After a lot of international pressure Isreal relented and stopped deliberately screwing up the aid convoys. Except the moment that happened settlers suddenly started knowing when and where every aid convoy was crossing into Palestine and started attacking them.
They've already bombed the vast majority of Gaza and resettled people, and the next step is almost certainly another expansion of the settler state of Israel.
Most of the millions of people that live in Gaza have been resettled into a very small area. Whether Israel decides to nuke them or force them into neighboring countries as refugees is irrelevant to their end goal of settling the territory. The Palestinians are just "rats" that need to be removed.
I'm sure they'd prefer to nuke them and just get rid of their problem once and for all; a final solution of sorts. However they do have limited political capital in this conflict, and nuking the remaining civilians does have the potential to negative impact U.S-Isrsel relations. So there's a real chance they opt for just pushing the "human animals" out of the territories.
It will be the ultimate irony when Israel finally carries out its own Holocaust of millions.