287
submitted 7 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] mint_tamas@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

Is it possible for someone to not be actively anti-something, or the lack if being so will qualify them as pro-something?

[-] dank@lemmy.today 0 points 7 months ago

I mean OP called Sanders anti-Zionist. He's certainly not that. Bernie has also outright stated that he supports Israel. I will admit that I may be slightly overstating the case to say that he's incontrovertibly a Zionist, but he at least may be from his public statements.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Israel is a lot like the Nazis. If you are not against the Nazis you are in favor of the Nazis. Bernie defending israel at the start of their Genocide for multiple months is surely not a great look. Even now Bernie has not called it a Genocide.

Senator Bernie Sanders’s refusal to call for a permanent cease-fire between Israel and Hamas has put him at odds with many of the same progressives who powered his presidential campaigns.

While Mr. Sanders was one of the first members of Congress to call for a humanitarian pause in the war amid a catastrophic civilian death toll in Gaza caused by Israel’s military offensive, he has rejected calls for a permanent cease-fire. Mr. Sanders, an independent, caucuses with Democrats.

He also reiterated his call for conditions on military aid to Israel and emphasized that Hamas was not a trustworthy negotiating partner in considering a permanent cease-fire.

“Biggest political disappointment of our generation,” Briahna Joy Gray, the national press secretary for Mr. Sanders’s 2020 presidential campaign, wrote about him on X.

Bernie is certainly not a prime target for someone that opposes israel but he is a Zionist.

[-] Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

So being a Zionist is just supporting Israel's existence now? That's a really really low bar, and what is your solution to these "Zionists", the destruction of Israel?

[-] Meh@lemy.lol 2 points 7 months ago

Sure seems that way from their account history. Dude is coming just short of claiming Israel is a US colony and shouldn't exist.

[-] juicy@lemmy.today -1 points 7 months ago

No, Israel should not exist as the ethnostate that it is today. Israel was conceived and continues to this day to exist as a state for Jewish people on Palestinian land, the indigenous people of which are systematically deprived of equal status under law.

[-] dank@lemmy.today -1 points 7 months ago

That has always been the meaning of the word Zionist:

Following the establishment of the modern state of Israel, Zionism became an ideology that supports the development and protection of the State of Israel as a Jewish state.

The key phrase is "as a Jewish state" which is what it is. It's declaration of independence states as much.

The term Jewish state has been in common usage in the media since the establishment of Israel, and the term has also been used interchangeably with IsraelGeorge W. Bush used the term in his speeches and in an exchange of letters with Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon in 2004.[5] Barack Obama has also used the phrase, for instance in a speech in September 2010 to the United Nations General Assembly.[6] The Israeli government under prime minister Ehud Olmert made the recognition of Israel as a Jewish state by the State of Palestine a pre-condition in the peace negotiations,[7] as did the government of his successor, Benjamin Netanyahu. (Wikipedia)

On 19 July 2018, with a vote of 62 to 55 (2 abstained), the Knesset adopted a new Basic Law that defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people. (Wikipedia)

The concept of a national homeland for the Jewish people is enshrined in Israeli national policy and reflected in many of Israel's public and national institutions. The concept was adopted in the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948 as the objective of the establishment of modern Israel. The principle was given legal effect in the Law of Return, which was passed by the Knesset on 5 July 1950, and stated: "Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh."[17] (Wikipedia)

A central issue in the Israel-Palestine debate is the Right of Return:

the principle that Palestinian refugees, both first-generation refugees (c. 30,000 to 50,000 people still alive as of 2012)[3][4] and their descendants (c. 5 million people as of 2012),[3] have a right to return and a right to the property they themselves or their forebears left behind or were forced to leave in what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories (both formerly part of the British Mandate of Palestine) during the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight (a result of the 1948 Palestine war) and the 1967 Six-Day War.

...

Opponents of the right of return hold that it is an unrealistic demand with no basis in international law and that if Israel were to absorb approximately five million Palestinians with an already existing large Arab population, it would lead to the demise of the Jewish state.[8]

So yes, opponents of Zionism call for the abolition of Israel as a Jewish state and the formation of a egalitarian state for all people regardless of race, ethnicity, or creed or at the least the creation of an independent Palestinian state to exist alongside Israel. But anti-Zionists do not support the Israel of today which is explicitly a Jewish ethno-state.

[-] Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

So yes, opponents of Zionism call for the abolition of Israel as a Jewish state and the formation of a egalitarian state for all people regardless of race, ethnicity,

Yes I was already aware of everything you said and that many anti-zionists will claim that. The issue is that there isn't an apartheid like situation in Israel based on ethnicity, there are Arab Israelis who enjoy full rights and representation, have many members In the Knesset and a member of the Supreme Court. The oppression is entirely nationality based, which is why the only solution is the end of the occupation, not some nebulous destruction of Israel and every existing state structure in the region.

[-] juicy@lemmy.today -2 points 7 months ago

I mean OP called Sanders anti-Zionist. He's certainly not that. Bernie has also outright stated that he supports Israel. I will admit that I may be slightly overstating the case to say that he's incontrovertibly a Zionist, but he at least may be from his public statements.

this post was submitted on 06 Apr 2024
287 points (98.0% liked)

News

23305 readers
3199 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS