Found in the comments of a youtube vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwI6py78gsI (I didn't watch because I never watch youtube videos, only reading the comments.
this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2023
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Never gets old how most people never care about nutrition until someone vegetarian/vegan shows up. Then they’re protein and/or B12 deficient, and they’ll die for sure!
As a carnivorous fattie, I do care about nutrition. And in all fairness, I'm open to suggestions for naturally vegetarian foods.
Now, before I get a list of "vegan beef and tofu", what I mean by naturally vegetarian, is foods that don't include tofu (which I personally don't just like), or need to advertise being vegan. I am looking for foods that, from the beginning of the time, have never had meat removed, or replaced. I want "accidentally vegetarian" -foods.
My current favourite is bean-tomato soup, but it gets rather one note.
I think I get what you're saying, and I agree. It isn't really as simple as "just remove/replace the meat", because plant proteins simply just cook and handle differently than meat, and often time the meat is the core focus of a dish. Instead, the focus should be on recipes that are built around their ingredients. They can have a similar purpose to a traditional meat dish (I will take a black bean burger over a regular hamburger any day), but ultimately should be prepared different.
Also, in my opinion, tofu is amazing when it isn't just used as a drop-in meat replacement. It goes really great with sauces and also fries pretty well.
How do you fry tofu well? I've been following youtube videos where the cooks do a pretty good impression of having an orgasm when they taste their tofu, but mine is like deep-fried cardboard.
This is quite the point I tried to make. Yeah, at this poi t beans are the only plant protein that I get even decent. Never heard of a black bean burger, to be honest, it won't be the first recipe I'll be looking with my cooking record.
And for tofu. I know it isn't originally meat replacement, and I've seen dishes that look amazing, but I still have trust issues when it comes to tofu. Maybe I need to retry some time if I encounter it in a (proper) buffet sometime. Still, I don't trust it. I haven't been a fan of shrooms either, and they just wasn't my thing even now, when I recently tried to cook some. My SO liked the muahroom sauce though, so it wasn't just about my inability to cook them.
There are vegetable versions of every "incorporated" meal where all the ingredients are mixed together, like pasta, soup, curry, stir-fry, etc.. And for every other meal, the meat portion is easily replaceable with another portion of vegetables.
Going vegetarian really is as simple as "don't put meat in it". Just take it off the ingredient list. Meals do not naturally contain meat, so if you don't add any, they won't have any. It's not something to be "substituted" unless you are wanting to mimic a specific meal.
And that's why I'm still very carnivorous.
There is always a design of a mean. The origin of a meal. And when it comes to health, there almost every time has to be protein. Most naturally to humans, who started to reach their human nature by cooking the meat they've captured, and builing a culture while waiting for that food to cook, most common source of protein is meat. Thus, most of the meals tend to be born from the meat being a center piece, which is then extended with everything else.
There, however, are many means (that I would like to know about), that have originated from the lack of access to meat, yet with the need for the culinaristic taste in mind. These are the meals I am lookong for.
As said: not removing the meat, not replacing the meat but not in the need for the meat. This is a concept every vegetarian wants to ignore. I am not looking to becoming vegan, or replacing my meats with replacements. I am looking to balance my meat with originally vegetarian recipes. Partly because of health reason, but also becaise I also want to have a collection of recipes for carnivores, that does not sound repulsive.
I repeat: not to remove, not to replace, but designed from the beginnig around something other than meat. Considering all the replies I tend to get to these requirements tend o be "just drop the meat m'kay", I'm starting to doupt if there is a way to properly design a meal without centering it around the meat.
I would say lots of Indian food would fall into this category, there are lots of vegetarian by design meals which have things like lentils or chickpeas in to provide the protein that you're looking for. Something like a daal or chana massala curry is a good place to start.
This sounds more like what I'm looking for. Might be worth a try. Thanks.
Humans became human through learning to cook in general. Not just learning to cook meat. Cooking has a large impact on the digestibility of vegetables, not just meat.
If you wanted to be true to nature you would probably be eating very different meats to the ones you eat now. Things that grow locally like mammoth, buffalo, dogs, marmots, rats, even insects. Not imported animals like cows. You also wouldn't be eating meat as often because hunting isn't that reliable compared to foraging or harvesting crops. Modern agricultural plants don't exist so you have to deal with much smaller and less nutritious wild plants and vegetables.
I should point out I am not a vegan or vegetarian. I simply find it annoying when people use nature arguments while not understanding what the nature actually is.
Seems believable. But to my understanding, people did either hunt before, or began hunting during the same perioid. And yeah, for the meat people ate what was available, when it was available. Meat still played a big role, and perhaps in peoples minds (like mine) the part is very exaggarated due to it being a matter of celebration, when the hunt ended successfully. The celebration of meat might also be one of the leading reasons why our food industry has evolved so meat-centric. None the less, good to be reminded/educated myself.
I'd also imagine that hunting tribes were more dominant over those who exclusively foraged. Not because they ate meat, but because they were more prestieged in killing.
And no, I don't want to be "true nature", but I'd rather eat more balanced foods, which was one of the points this thread eventually started.
Meat isn't something we started eating when we became humans. I am pretty sure chimpanzees eat animals, though I think it's mainly insects. Our specific strategy for hunting might have something to do with us developing intelligence but that isn't certain by any means.
Anyway lots of countries are not this meat centric as meat is more rare and expensive.
It is somewhat more difficult to have a perfect diet without meat. Then again having a healthy balanced diet is general is difficult no matter how many animal products you use.
I also think you missed the point of being vegan entirely. It's to stop suffering, not because of nature or being healthy.
No, I know people prefers veganism due to ethical reasons. But the unfortunate fact is that there is always someone somewhere suffering, and in all honest, I'm down to reducing the overproduction of meat, and ensuring humane treatment, but stopping meat production just results all those animals being left to die on their own devices, which in turn, is more cruel I feel, considering most of those animals are at this point dependant on humans.
Whatever. Good luck to you.
Same to you. This is why people who eat mainly meat don't even consider vegan food. All vegans seem to be fixated upon replacing the meat, when the answer for vegetarian food that tastes good is to have recipes that don't try to mimic meat diet.
Just one recipe. Is that too much?
No, the reason is that you have invented a false history to justify not even trying.
There are entire cultures where eating meat is either a rare occasion, or simply never done, even though they have access to meat and livestock.
People eat what they had available. Sometimes that was meat, many times it wasn't.
A simple vegetable soup is easy and nutritious. Most curries are vegetable-first and only become non-vegetarian by choosing to add meat instead of something like lentils or checkpeas. Vegetable lasagna is decadent and satisfying.
There are near-infinite recipes available of food that is plant-based and tastes good. But you have this list of exclusionary factors where you have decided that various meals "should" have meat, and therefore a meat-free version has made a replacement, and is therefore inferior and you aren't going to try it.
You don't need a recipe, you need a change of mindset.
Pre-history. This happened during the time human figured out how to work with fire, and started consuming cooked meat. The cooked meat itself was not what made human start "socializing", but it introduced something no other animal did: waiting. To fill the void, people started to fill the time with what we now call culture. It is part of our evolutionary history.
None the less, in my first post I spesifically pointed out that I am not looking for "just remove meat", which was the point. And your answer was "well these foods are good if you just remove the meat". That is the issue why you do have issues to convert people to eat vegan: Instead of pointing out WHAT in WHICH cousine is originally meatless, you prefer to ignore the idea that it's hard to start searching the vegetarian cousine, if the available cousine around you is based on "we'll build this around meat", and "Just build it around meat, and then replace or remove the meat". This is the modern western viewpoint, and I am looking to break that for myself.
As per the other commentor suggested, I will look in to lentils in Indian cousine. However, I find that the modern vegetarian cousine has stagnated because of the need to sell "meatlesd meat". Making a good food is about not making compromises. Not "deciding to just drop the meat". I have tried a lot of "vegan options", and as said, I am not looking to turn vegan. That is why I can decide NOT to compromise when it comes to meat. I, however, am open to try vegan cousine that, simply said is not "better by just adding meat". And if you want to convert people to veganism, you need to change of mindset. You need to relize that people who eat meat are not willing to compromise with the meat, when they have already tried that cardboard they call "vegan meat".
A recipe is a start.
I know what you asked. But no, that is not what I said.
I did not say "remove the meat". I pointed out that all these meals are vegetarian until you add the meat. None of them are intrinsically meat-based.
This is EXACTLY what I mean when I say you need a change of mindset, if you actually want to try.
I have no idea where you are looking, but nothing could be further from the truth. Vegetarian options have flourished because more people are moving to a meat-free diet.
And of course, you think pretty much every vegan dish is a compromise, and so you will continue to not try. Convenient!
Bite me :)
I've suggested three already, I'm sorry you have trouble reading.
And I'm saying that I don't like the meat replacers. You have not suggested any recipe that would, by default, fall in to the category of not removing the meat, and my problem is not that you think saying "just make pasta wothout a meat" is a new recipe. My problem is that if I want an option to find something to build a meal around, meat is the best option, because that is available, and easy to make taste good, a vegans answer is "just make whatever you would do, and remove the meat". Vegetable soup is not a recipe, because soup in of itself is so varied dish, that it's not just "throw carrot in water and boil". Vegetable soups fo have names, and you have provided none. I, however, mentioned that I like a sor of vegetable soup: the bean and tomato soup. You can google a recipe, and get quite consistent results that quite consistently have a recognizable common recipe.
I am perfectly willing to find vegetarian meals that nourish me, but I have no interest to become a vegan, partly because culture is hostile. And if you didn't know, hostility rarely welcomes new people in.
As for vegan "meat-free options flourishing", they do because some people feel more incentiviced to eat meatless, and perhaps the quality has probably improved. However, for people who loke the taste of meat, and are not willing to compromise that, you need to provide a good curry by a name, because if I search for curry, I get loads of good curry recipes with chicken, pork and meat, instead of the "OG" curry that, allegedly, does not have meat. What is the protein in that curry? Is it lentils? Is it chia beans? Nobody knows, it's just meatless.
I am ready to try vegan, but by experience I've been birned too many times by asking for the foods that are marketed towards carnivores, but are vegan, that I am not willing to eat meat replacements. And every time I ask if there is a recipe, every time I suggest that I'd be willing to try a meal thst is "accidentally vegan", I am bombarded with "well we have this meat replacer..." or "just make these foods but not with meat".
Tofu is something I don't like, because I associate it with meat replacements, even though I am aware that that particular "meat replacer" has been used for long before meat needed to be "replaced". I just don't fancy those foods.
Now, for lentils or chickpeas. How the fuck does one spice them? How can you make them taste good? Beans are easy peasy, you can spice them pretty much like meat, but with more herbs than pepper. That is why I want recipes. I want references. I want to add options. And yes, I will still eat meat, because that is readily available, easy to make and tastes good.
Oh, and to add to the mix: my SO can't consume pasta due to allergies, so there is that. Do you know how hard it is to bake, when wheat flour is the main baking ingredient for anything slightly puff?
And for you to change your mindset, I'm not saying "consume meat, heretic", I'm saying if you want people to try vegan foods, don't market them as vegan foods. The vegan market is so fixated on "meat replacements" that they've forgotten that traditionally (accidentally) vegan foods can be used as a base to create more interesting culinary options, rather that "compromising the meat".
If you want to find recipes, here are the names of some traditionally plant-based dishes you can search for online:
Dhal (curry)
Ratatouille
Chana masala
Baba ganoush
Does that suffice or do you want links to specific recipes?
Nowhere in any of my comments have I suggested a "meat replacer" even a single time.
This is why I'm snarky with you. Because you keep pretending I've said things that I haven't.
Ok but a lot of the “replacement” I do is on par with replacing the original meat from a recipe to one that’s more palatable to American tastes. Black bean tacos are just as authentic as chicken tacos are. Chickpea or lentil curry is often more authentic than chicken curry considering the widespread long standing culture of vegetarianism on the Indian subcontinent. Falafel predates doner. And sometimes substitutions can be just good. I have a lentil shepherds pie I really like and did even when I’d just quit meat.
Some other foods that don’t need meat to be good and healthy are chili with beans, tortilla soup, and beans and rice.
If you enjoy spicy foods (not necessarily hot, but richly flavoured) have a look at Indian cuisine. If you dodge the dishes that are more westernised most things are made with vegetables, and delicious. There's a lot of variation between regions, so there should be plenty to keep you interested.
Ethiopian cuisine has a lot of dishes that are traditionally 100% plant-based and really good:
For instance, stuff like Kik Alicha (a sort of split pea stew) to things that are more like a stir-fry on top of injera bread. Here's one website talking about some of the various stuff though you can probably find more just from googling
Outside of Ethiopian cuisine, I also really like Koshary, which is an Egyptian street food with lentils, chickpeas, elbow macaroni, rice, crispy onions, and tomato sauce. Admittedly Koshary is a bit of work to prepare compared to most other dishes, but it's really good.
There's also stuff like falafel and hummus that are more widely known about in the West and plenty good too. There's plenty more I missing because this comment is getting too long. Looking up "traditionally vegan dishes in [random country]" will give you a lot of good recipes you'd never have known about
Falafel isn’t really accidental in its veganism, it’s just vegan because it’s a really old food meant for people who can’t afford animal products
I've been making black bean burritos for my kids for years, and they actually prefer that to burritos with meat in them. We are not vegetarian or vegan, but try to incorporate 3-4 meatless meals per week. Mainly because my wife has a degenerative kidney disorder that is compounded by proteins from animals.
Ingredients are:
Lime Can of black beans Bell pepper Onion Sharp cheddar cheese Avocado or guac Cumin Chili powder Salt Burrito sized tortillas Hot sauce (optional) Crispy jalapenos (optional)
Slice up the onion and pepper and toss it in a pan or skillet on medium-low. Add a little salt to help them sweat. Cook these till the onions are caramelized. At the end, add the juice from half of the lime and season with cumin and chili powder to taste. Remove from heat and set aside.
Put another pan/skillet on heat or rinse the pan you just used and placed back on heat.
Drain and rinse the black beans, then season with cumin, and salt to taste.
Shred the cheddar cheese and slice the avocado if you have one.
Assemble and toast the burrito, turning it as it browns.
Enjoy. I hope.
I think I'll try that, even though blackeyed ones are not my favourite beans (I feel I never get the consistency of them right). Also, I might need to try these by myself, or figure out a way to make gluten free tortillas that don't crumble when slightly looked at, as my SO has gluten allergy.
Also, might need to keep cumin in mind, when making beans.
India has very delicious and even heavy foods, that are vegetarian. Though the heavy ones usually contain butter.
Ghee (said with a strong Indian accent).
Many pizzas are vegetarian (e.g. margherita). IDK whether you're looking for cheese-based dishes, though.