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this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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You said it exists because of Israel. That is just untrue. Has Israel done things that exacerbated the problem? Definitely. But that is miles away from what you're saying. And worse for what you're implying.
it exists because Israel sustains it what you're saying is ignorant
Again, I've pointed out that the parent organization has existed since 1928 and has branches in multiple countries of the region. Not to mention the ongoing support from Lebanon and Iran for Hamas in particular. So even if Israel ceased to exist Hamas is likely to exist. Even if Israel never existed, whatever group was in control of that area, would still likely be dealing with an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood.
I actually know the history of the organization. Yet I am ignorant. I feel like I'm probably correcting someone who has likely never lived in a world with the twin towers.
You keep talking and while what you say is true it is ignorant because you are choosing to overlook a piece of the puzzle.
Israel kills Palestinians. That feeds Hamas and nothing you have said or are saying takes away from that point.
This whole event happened because of Israel's behavior. That's why we are talking about it.
Everything you're saying is denying that truth that everyone else understands. Nothing you said removed that fact or made it less important. Israel caused this we all understand that, why can't you?
Iran causes it sure, so did Israel. WWII and WWI caused this, but so did Israel. The Roman Empire, Alexander the Great, Darius the Great caused this but so did Israel.
Do you understand why you're ignorant now? You should understand how Israel caused this. We all understand what you're saying but Israel is the most immediate direct cause of this bullshit and is the actor attacking Palestinians.
On multiple occasions the Palestinian governments could have formed an internationally recognized state. At the camp David accords with Clinton, 98% of the land they asked for. Lots of money. But they stopped the negotiations.
And Hamas was put into power due to the promise of using violence to get rid of Israel after the PA said it would renounce violence.
No. You're wrong and disgusting. The attack is on the attackers. They chose to attack. They did have other options. You can debate if the restrictions Israel has put on Gaza has made the peace process worse and has made the lives of Palestinians worse. That's fine. But Hamas launched this attack. A group put in to power by the Palestinian people. And this was their choice. And now thousands are dead as a result. And I am fearful of the long term consequences for both sides.
There is no debate it just has. 100%.
Also way to just softly admit exactly what I'm fucking saying. You had to be dragged to the point then you gently admit it.
My god some people
From the beginning I've said only that Hamas doesn't exist merely because of Israel.
And it isn't 100%. Your mind is apparently to narrow to see other possibilities. Israel could've had no restrictions post 2005 and they could've been more violent. Obtained more weapons. Blown up more buses and civilians. Fired more rockets. Hell, let's take it further. They could've agreed to everything the Palestinians wanted in negotiations. And it could've resulted in a country that immediately declares war on them with trade support from the surrounding countries that had attacked Israel on multiple occasions. Or even further, as I've stated multiple times, the Muslim brotherhood has offshoots all throughout the region and is known to be militaristic and problematic in almost all of those countries.
You think I somehow agreed with you? You are just a naive fool. This attack happened because Hamas perpetrated it. No more. No less. And as long terrorism is their method of negotiation, they will never know peace. In fact, they will likely only be weakening their positions in any peace process. Because now, I guarantee any agreement for sovereignty will be contingent on no attacks as a basic starting point. And any act that violates it would make the agreement null and void.
Israel exists and will continue to do so. Hamas, on the other hand, would not be the first terrorist organization to be dismantled and made inconsequential or non-existent. Palestinians have a right to a safe and secure life. Perhaps if Hamas is wiped out, negotiations will start again.
The back-forth here reminds me of The Resistance of WW2. That movement was basically in every European nation that resisted German occupation/expansion. Those nations, by necessity, coalesced into one movement because Germany was the aggressor. The moment WW2 ended, so too ended the various resistance movements as there was nothing left to resist.
Got it. So there should be one pan Arab state and Israel should cease to exist as well. And when that happens, what you're saying, is that all will be well in the region?
Has Germany ceased to exist? Are their WW2 adversaries oppressing them to this day? Are they confined to an ever-smaller part of their own country? On the contrary, they tore down the physical & ideological walls dividing their country & were welcomed into a union with freedom of movement.
So a one state solution?
A union where all states keep their independence, but work together. The kind of union the world could be one day, in a future far away.