this post was submitted on 02 May 2026
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[–] jaybone@lemmy.zip 16 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I never understood this. Any measurement you do with a wheel you could do with a line of length equal to the circumference. So whether they knew about pi or not is irrelevant?

[–] Juice@midwest.social 20 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

You're doing a measurement, and using a wheel to measure. There's a mark on the wheel, so that one turn = one unit of measure. So if all of your measurements are x turns of the wheel, then all of your measurements will be x/pi.

So mathematicians studying it will discover the measurements are all some multiple of pi. Journalists unlucky enough to have to write about this stuff know like 1 thing about archeology but like 2 things about math and 10000000 things about sensationalism, so they write articles about the one thing they know about archaology, the two things they know about math, and the 10000000 things they know about writing a sensationalist article, rinse repeat.

[–] bequirtle@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

mathematicians studying it will discover the measurements are all some multiple of pi.

Only if you measured it in wheel-lengths... In meters it would just be an arbitrary number

[–] erev@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago (1 children)
[–] lastunusedusername2@sh.itjust.works -1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Yes but the ratio to the wheel radius. So unless you know that, the circumference is just an arbitrary length

[–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

It isn't just a single linear measurement, it would be multiple measurements. Also they weren't using meter circumference wheels, the wheels would be, to us, some arbitrary standard that would be revealed when dividing the two lengths by pi.

I think the point of the post re: the tired paleontologist is that the pi-related ratio just isn't that interesting, Ancient Aliens uses math to mystify the subject, not make it simpler to understand. So I think the thing youre hung up on is the point of the post. It just isn't that interesting of an insight if you understand the math, but of you present it a certain way, youre like selling the idea that ancient civilization had access to abstractions (like pi) that maybe didn't "exist" for ancient civilizations. But when you think if it in terms of practical applications, you realize that the tools and the work that people were doing didn't require exactness of abstraction, just exactness of practical function.

Ancient Egyptians did have a concept of pi, but to them it was 22/7, which is more than close enough for any practical application. Pi is 3.1415.. and 22/7 is 3.142. They didn't need that exact of a figure to build a pyramid, their calculations were as good or better than our engineers use in practical application. Civilizations that are around for thousands of years end up figuring shit out when they try to do stuff. We use mathematics to plan, and so did they; but to build something you don't need someone who has memorized pi, you just need engineers with practical experience building things. Ancient civilizations had that, their tools contained their methods of abstraction, even in rare cases their books did not.

But Ancient Aliens never imagines real people with real experiences, it assumes stupidity and brutishness in its subject, when actually they are objectively stupid and brutal. You're confusing rationality for sensationalism, which I appreciate imagining the world as being more rational than it is.

[–] lastunusedusername2@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 minutes ago

You make it sound like you're disagreeing with me but then you restate my point

[–] bequirtle@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

I believe they are talking about how the base/height ratio of one of the pyramids is very close to pi

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 13 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (2 children)

Wheels are always a fraction of pi. Whether you like it or not. Lengths of string can be arbitrary, but a circle's dimensions are always tightly related to and proportional to pi in some way. I also recall that wheel measurements are more precise for large scale building because, unlike rope, leather and cloth, a wooden wheel doesnt stretch. Two wheels made similar will stay more between a much tighter error factor than two pieces of rope. The rope might start at the same length but will deform differently as they are used.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I don't know if I'd say wooden wheels "stretch" per se, but wood absolutely warps due to all sorts of factors

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

I didn't make clear, that I mean using something for measuring really large distances, like the length and width of a large building's base. A typical measure stick would have less stretching than rope, sure, but would also be tedious to measure with. Counting the spins of a wheel as you roll it is trivially easy and quick in comparison. Wood warps, but not really that much.

[–] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I think they are saying that the circumference of a wheel can be any arbitrary measurement, you just change the size of the wheel. So how can that be notably different from having a straight ruler the same length as whatever that circumference is?

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

The spoke of the wheel is the same length used to measure the blocks. Other comments here have gone into detail. If the height of the blocks is the same as the diameter or radius of the wheel used to measure the base, then the relations will always be some function of pi. You don't have to know any definition of pi for this to always be geometrically true.

[–] DeadDigger@lemmy.zip 5 points 22 hours ago

Because this was how you did geometry and math in general in ancient times even till around year 500. The biggest problem was to easily construct exact angles. because it is rly hard to construct a triangle ruler with old materials. but a circle can be constructed with a pencil and a string and with 2 circles you can easily construct exact angles.