I legitimately don't know what Fraternity is and why it's normal in America and why these dudes are standing like this.
this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2026
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I don't know, show me a french, a German or a Spanish frat that's similar to the American stuff. Calling the different semi-secret societies that exist everywhere the same as an American dudebro frat seems quite odd to me. They're not the same thing.
I don't see how the pigfucker club from Eton for England's wealthiest pricks is the same as an American frat, nor is it the standard of indoctrination for western Europe. I'm sure every country has some get together for rich and wealthy kids, but saying they're similar to the American greek frats seems incorrect on many levels.
I suppose you could respond by also explaining how the things you're thinking of are the same as an American frat. But I guess I'd start by just giving examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sanda_Dia
Also the reason why you don't see more German fraternities is WWII. They know it's not a good look: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/31/austria-dissolve-fraternity-linked-far-right-freedom-party-songbook
A group of young white guys networking, drinking, and hazing each other is not unique to the US and I don't even know why it's being suggested as such. At best they're not as common because people in Europe seem to have a sense of the common good and will ban them. But they do exist. It's not about them being the exact same because obviously cultural distinctions exist. Just because Burschenschaft dresses it up as Medieval sword duels doesn't mean it's not a similar thing.
Thank you for the link to Reuzegom. Again it seems like it's an outlier and not a common thing for Europe. Reading about it, it seems more like a studentverbindung than an american frat. But for some reason they're called the same thing. I found this list of frats and sororities in france, which, again, make it seem like not a very common thing. There it's more a product of french canadians, and even then the list is incredibly short.
good thing that's not what I'm saying. I feel like I've made it very clear that's not what I'm saying.
I mean it does though? OP is asking about american fraternities and uses a picture of a hazing ritual. It's pretty clear it's not "hey do rich people meet and network in clubs at institutions for education?" Reducing it to "there are clubs for rich people everywhere" is inane, especially when american fraternities are - as I've already said - much more widespread and much more accessible to the common person.
Yes and dangerous hazing rituals exist in European fraternities. It may seem more widespread in the US because the US is more homogeneous than the group of European countries. Plus the media like movies and all push it to the front.
Why are you continually ignoring what I write?
I'm not ignoring what you write. You edited your post while i was writing the previous one. I'm not itemizing your posts and replying line by line. You said the OP is talking about hazing in a frat, I too posted about hazing in a frat. You said American frats seem more common and I said it seems that way because we're more homogeneous and the media focuses on it. I replied directly to what you said.
I said OP is talking about american frats and accompanied the post with a picture of a hazing ritual in an american frat. I then, in more than one post responding to you, mentioned how they seem much more widespread. I likewise said this initially
As well as
Which was present before the edit. I'm sorry I edit my post for clarification, I don't expect immediate responses, and I don't have the good words ready from the start.
edit: Yet you keep returning to "there are clubs where rich people network and do rich people shit" which is incredibly reductive. I have said a couple of times that frats are also much more widespread in america and focus on housing as well as they are more available to laypeople. All of these things are true and do make them different. We've also strayed far from the initial part of 70% of western europes elite being part of fraternities like american frats. At this point we agree that the things are not the same. I don't disagree that at least 70% of all rich assholes everywhere are members of some sort of club where they do rich people shit, but, again, that seems incredibly reductive, and using the same word as for an american frat full of drunken daterapist dudebros seems counterproductive.
Let's start over but also this is probably my last post on the subject since I don't feel like having a drawn out argument about fraternities of all things.
Regardless of what OP posted, who OP is, what country they're from, where their allegiances lie, etc etc. I am arguing that Europe (France, Germany, Spain, UK) has scholastic organizations (ie organizations centered around school life) that center on networking, brotherhood, community service, and possibly spirituality or religion. That's their public face. In their private face, they have a lot of partying, drinking, drug use, sex, hazing, and general anti-social behaviors. What these orgs are actually called in their specific regional dialects I don't know. What percentage of the populations of each country is a member, I also don't know. I'm not the person who brought up the 70% figure but I agree that the vibe is "a lot." These European student orgs are comparable to American fraternities. The similarities begin and end with them all being student social organizations dedicated to networking, partying, and being a social terror wherever they are located.
American frats do not center on student housing a specific major goal. It's a perk of some frats to have a dedicated house on or off campus known as a "frat house." It's not a requirement that frats provide housing, free or otherwise. Students who stay at frat houses may still be required to pay for it or the rent may be covered by alumni. All students are generally required by universities to live on campus their first year or two, in dormitories provided by the school. Students pay rent for the dorms. I don't know if European schools work this way but regardless it doesn't radically change the other similarities between Europe and the US frats.
Frat is short for fraternity or fraternal order. There are non-scholastic fraternal orders in the US and Europe. I am not talking about those. I am specifically talking about university-aged people at a school. I do not believe in my heart of hearts that European teenagers at uni are less drunken daterapist dudebros than American teens. The attitude that, as a European, it's "their drunken dudebros" vs "our urbane students", is exactly the problem.
Just to add to this: in my city it is only possible to get housing in your first year as a student if you are either super rich, super lucky or you join a fraternity. These frats are very dudebro and there are countless examples of daterapes and other disgusting behaviour of these people. In frat houses you have to ‘earn’ a door to your bedroom by having sex in. Which means you first have to have sex in your room without a door (so your roommates can see and hear clearly) before you can assemble a door to your room.
My city is not unique, in fact, the frats here are not as ‘prestigious’ as in other cities. The political class in my country mostly originates from 2 frats in other cities. France has a slightly different system that I can’t really speak for, Germany is weird because student associations are associated too much with nazism so many people don’t want to associate with them (but they still hold significant political power). AFAIK UK, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium and UK are as I described or similar, and I assume Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and Norway are similar as well.
In not saying their exactly the same as American fraternities. In fact, I don’t even know what American fraternities are like. I’m just describing how fraternities function in Western Europe. You might not think of them as fraternities, but they fall under the definition of a fraternity. They are elite associations of university students that are very hard to get into, have extreme hazing practices (every so often someone dies during these rituals) and as I said, 70% of politicians at least in my country are proud ‘alumni’ of these associations. They shape our political climate to an extreme degree.
It is bizarre to me how you’re attacking me because you think I’m wrong when I’m describing how fraternities shape our political climate and then demanding me for proof instead of explaining how I’m supposedly wrong. You could also just ask for clarification if you’re so curious.
I'm sorry, but if you feel as though being asked questions is an attack, then that's on you. I've explained how I disagree with you. And you were the one who said you didn't know what to say, why are you mad when I give you suggestions on what would work?
And your argument is: “I haven’t heard of them, so they must not exist”.
The whole purpose of these associations is for their function to be hidden from society, so of course you don’t hear from them if you are not a student here. Maybe interact with my arguments instead of keeping your eyes and ears closed to them and thinking you’re in the right just because.
I’d love to provide you with a nice article that explains everything to you but sadly most media is also owned by frat alumni so it is rare to find any substantial analysis on the political power of these fraternities.
It's not? You seem to be unwilling to engage with what I write, so why respond?